babu1

Hi John,

You and Andy are both correct, nor is there any mention of 183 "continuous" days stay. I also agree with Andy that the Purpose/Intention of stay can be to stay for an indefinite period to purchase a house or be resident : being resident by whatever definition proves an intention to stay in India without leaving for an indefinite period.

However, a Resident Permit confers certain small privileges such as Indian prices on travel and entry to monuments, purchase and registration of vehicles, and registration of electricity, telephone and PWD water supply accounts in your own name.

Possibly not that important to most people, but the more I can endorse my legal ownwership the better, and my ownership is legal, it just takes the relevant officials to do their job and correctly interpret both FEMA and RBI regulations as they themselves have set them out. There lies the problem!

All that stuff about not being allowed to own property, assets, investments, foreign exchange whilst claiming reidency in India was not much more than hysteria (thankfully). I'm not for "No Going Back"!

I wonder how Vijay Mallya (UB Breweries, Kingfisher Beer, Kingfisher Airlines, Whyte & Mckay Distillers, Scotland) gets on with his residency when he visits his Scottish castle, Knightsbridge apartment, Whyte & McKay Distillers in Edinburgh, or his 6 ranches in South Africa?

Best wishes

noni

Hi Babu
Last paragraph - than is them and we are us - poor individuals. But
the :curse::curse::curse::curse::curse::curse::curse:: curse: will not grind me down.

a_f_d

well said!

John Chappell

[QUOTE=babu1;5386123]Hi John,

However, a Resident Permit confers certain small privileges such as Indian prices on travel and entry to monuments, purchase and registration of vehicles, and registration of electricity, telephone and PWD water supply accounts in your own name.

Hi,

Just for info Babu1, I have been told by my local travel agent (Cochin) that FN's can now pay rupee fares on all travel whether resident or not, and hotel bills can be paid at rupee rate, although if above Rs25,000 a PAN Card or Account Number has to be produced, but agree with you entirely on the other points.

Regards

John

Remy-Ireland

Hi Andy/All,

Yes it might not mention visas but it does say only Resident FNs can legally purchase property, and to become resident you need to complete 183 days in a fiscal year and now prove intention to stay......although it dosent mention visas, you need one that will allow you to do this. The 180 days restriction prevents you from completing the 'residency time' in one foul sweep which many prefer to do. Also a five year x could have been used as a tool to prove 'intention to stay' and many easily achieved residency on one.....but its going to be hard to do this on a tourist visa with a 180 day max stay restriction. I know of many people who got their residency with a 5 year x but im not aware of anyone who got it with a tourist visa........but i will happily stand corrected on this.

Regards,
Remy

Remy-Ireland

Hi Babu,

Thats it ....get it all off your chest.
Feel better now?
Btw...i agree with you.

Regards,
Remy

old man

Hi Curious in goa,

I wonder how many people will be prepared to talk to you. With respect if we give our names, we risk having problems with visa renewals etc. as others have found. Could you not take our story from this site. It certainly will take a great deal of time reading all the threads.

We certainly need a voice to help us with our problem.

Good luck anyway.

old man

Perhaps you should invite VJ to your Christmas Bash and ask his advice

old man

Hi Curious

Perhaps you could start with people like these, who lead the FN's into the position we find ourselves in. These are the sort of lies that cause all the problems. :curse:

curious about goa

Hi, Thanks for that. I have spoken already to one of your members and have assured him that I will quote him anonymously, which I definitely will do! I didn't realise that by giving your names you might jeapordise your visas-obviously your identitiy must be protected- so if anyone posts particular issues here I can refer to them when I interview your member more fully over the weekend. Obviously I'm new to Goa issues but from what I've learned already (just returned from a trip to Goa and several Indian cities) it seems that the smaller developers/agents are selling property on land which is contentious (having been rezoned from green to pink). Foreigners can legally buy through setting up companies or by fulfilling the 183 day stay requirement but obviously there are problems with this and with selling on your properties. All tips onissues to cover in the feature will be gratefully received. My aim is to produce a balanced fair piece if possible.

noni

Hi

Unfortunately there is no way you can purchase a property in Goa at the moment and those who think they have "bought" (having paid for the property) cannot register the property in their name as the Register is closed to Foreign Nationals - there is no way around it.

When I say no way "to buy"- yes - developers will take your money and tell you a lot of bullshit and you think you have bought BUT :curse::curse: at the end of the day the property still belongs to them. They may offer you a lease on your property, but after five years you have to do the 182 days and you won't get the correct x visa. So the best plan is to rent.

People who have bought properties and register them have been asked to leave the country :curse: and given 15 days notice.

For your research the letter we received from the Directorate of Enforcement is one www.indiamike.com Property in India 2 Page 3 8th May thread 301, to date we have no heard any more from them.

wheatsheaf

hello Curious,

have to agree with babu1. I hope that as a journalist you will be able to cover more than the FN property issue in Goa. There is a vacuum that exists in Goa relating to identity, what that identity is, who owns it, and the struggle over it. More than iron ore, Goa is a mine that is being mercilessly emptied, by which process it's people, the environment, civil government and society is eroding at a ferocious pace. The presence of FNs gives hope that this trend of destruction will slow down. Call on your muse and write fast!!.

Kinrara

Hi Remy

This is so confusing, what happens if you do 183 days in a fiscal year on a 1 year tourist visa, max 180 days, can you then ask for residency?

Regards

babu1

Hi Kinrara,

If you have a 1 Year Tourist Visa, maximum stay 180 days, that means you have to leave the country by the 180th. day (from the date of issue of the Visa; not from the date of your arrival in India) at the latest, and re-enter India, or you may be able to make an application to overstay your 180 days but I would expect the condition of stay on your 1 Year Tourist Visa would be enforced except in exceptional circumstances such as serious prolonged illness.

Once you have left India and journeyed back there again you will have completed 183 days in the fiscal year as soon as these two periods of stay add up to more than 182 days in the fiscal year of 1st. April to 31st. March.

I am not aware of any conditions in FEMA that your stay should be continuous to qualify for a more than 182 day stay, and I have been advised that this is the case by two different Advocates.

Some people will argue that a Tourist Visa by definition (no matter if you do 182+ days on 2 visits in the same fiscal year) does not confer any rights to purchase immovable property anyway because the term "Tourist" is unsatisfactory as an "Intention/Purpose" of visit : you are a "tourist", and not a "resident" within the terms of FEMA.

So, since FEMA makes no mention of types of Visa, or of a "continuous 182+ day stay" condition, it could be argued that being a "tourist" whilst seeking to purchase an appropriate property is a valid enough "Purpose and Intention".

If you have completed more than 182 days between 1st. April 2006 and 31st. March 2007, you would be able to approach the Sub Registrar to register your Sale Deed now if they hadn't closed the Register to all foreigners since about August 2006.

If you are attempting to complete more than 182 days in the fiscal year 2007 to 2008, then you will have to start counting your eligible days stay in India between 1st. April 2007 and 31st. March 2008.

This would be in the hope that the Register re-opens for foreign nationals, and all other criteria having been met, you would be hoping to register your Sale Deed after 1st. April 2008 since that is the fiscal year following the year in which you completed your 182+ days.

There are a number of people anxious for clarification on the re-opening of the Register, if not for purchase, then in order to sell. Everything is in limbo, although I did read that you can request the Sub Registrar to give his reasons for refusal to register in writing and he is lawfully bound to do so. This will inevitably be referred to the Home Department, and The Directorate of Enforcement, and you will get a reply also.

The FRO In Panjim may oblige by explaining their criteria for issuing Resident Permits, so I wish you luck and patience.

Would be obliged if you could post back with any info/responses from the Goan side.

Hope this helps.

P.S,Did you buy a bike as intended or still hiring? Was it you I asked about going online in Goa through a mobile and laptop? - still don't understand how it works or what it costs!

P.P.S These are the definitions of "person resident in India within the terms of FEMA:

http://www.helplinelaw.com/docs/fema/fem02.php

B. "PERSON RESIDENT IN INDIA"

"A person resident in India", shall include any of the following

(I) A person who has been residing in India for more than 182 days, in the last financial year. This means if a person has to be assessed, as to whether he is person resident in India, for any offence committed in August 2001, then he should be residing in India for more than 182 days during April 2000 to March 2001

(II) Any person or body corporate registered or incorporated in India, or

(III) An office, branch or agency in India owned or controlled by a person resident outside India, or

(IV) An office, branch or agency outside India owned or controlled by a person resident in India.



However, in following cases a person shall not be person resident in India", even if he is residing in India for more than 182 days in the last financial year:



(i) A person who has gone abroad, for :

Taking up employment outside India or
For carrying on any business outside India, or
For any other purpose, which itself would indicate his intention to stay outside India for an uncertain period.
(ii) Similarly, a person who has come to India for any purpose except :

Taking up employment in India, or
Carrying on any business in India, or
For any other purpose, which itself would indicate his intention to stay in India for an uncertain period.

© copyright 2000-2003, Helplinelaw.com

a_f_d

babu1 said:
yes, but otoh he is lawfully bound to register a properly prepared Deed / Agreement of Sale!!!
I am doing exactly that at the moment. It took some days to get correct intructions from Airtel but it is now up and running. I get about 32 kbps down and 14 kbps up - which is roughly similar to dial-up speed, slow but useable for email / browsing but not downloads. In addition to the usual SIM cost it's just Rs 15 a day (no other charges, or so I'm told). It should be possible to do the same thing with a pcmcia data modem card but I haven't managed that yet.

hth AndyD 8-)#