Remy-Ireland

Hi Yvonne,

We all know about steve wood.

Tell me how did you register the title of your properties?
Are you an FN or a PIO? and what type of visa do you hold?
Have you had your letter yet from the Directorate of Enforcement?


It sounds to me that you dont know the extent of the problem in Goa.
Please take time to read Douglas's story at the very start of this thread and the recent media articles.

The Ostrich Syndrome does'nt help anyone!

Regards,
Remy

Remy-Ireland

Hi Noni,

Reference your post......please note i'm not having a go at anyone, but have you read JP Singhs Statement on this?

Have you watched the news clip i talked about?

Have you read the recent articles in the Goan media?

IMHO and i sincerely hope i am proved wrong (time will tell) , the only thing a tourist is going to be allowed to be in Goa is a tourist!

Now if they make it easier for an FN to become a Resident FN and the register re-opens then that may be a differant story but judging by all the recent statements coming from India, this is'nt going to happen....in the short term anyway.

The reason i mentioned the tourist visa thing in my last post is because some people think that because FEMA does'nt mention Tourist Visa that its ok to buy on one. Equally this argument could be put the other way and that is part of my point.

I think the type of Visa that you are on, has a much bigger impact on what you can and cant do in Goa tat a lot of FNs think.

I dont believe it is going to be possible to prove 'intention to stay' whilst on a tourist visa and since Jp Singh has said this week that they are not extending visa's then its catch 22.

A lot of people on here are very knowledgable on FEMA but what about all the other Indian laws (of which im sure there are thousands), do we know so much about them?

I think its the laws regarding the 'dos and donts' and 'cans and cannots' of types of visa that we should also be looking at in conjunction with FEMA.
Because that in my opinion is why there are so many differant types of visa...of which 'tourist visa' is bottom of the scale.

I think it is no good thing for FNs that types of visa is'nt mentioned in FEMA....i think this is to their benefit.
And again i urge people to look at the statement this week from the Chief Secretary JP Singh and draw your own conclusions.


Remy

PS: I also believe its only a matter of time before the Indian Government come out with a defining statement on this.

John Chappell

Hi Remy,

As you are well aware the PIO card gives rights which are not conferred on non Indian FN’s and has nothing to do with the points posted.

Again the points I was trying to make are:-

FEMA is the ONLY Legal Document which is produced by the Indian Government / RBI which lays down ALL the conditions one has to meet for a FN to be legally able to purchase property.

FEMA doesn’t say what visa you need to be able to comply with the act, possibly because it may depend on individual circumstances.

FEMA doesn’t say you have to register at the FRRO as part of the conditions of meeting the Residency requirements of FEMA.

The Residency requirement stipulated on a visa has nothing to do with FEMA or purchase of property. The Pink Book or just the plain A4 sheet Residency paperwork IS required for various other day to day living in India tasks. These may include obtaining a telephone line or Internet connection, a legal gas supply, long term rent agreement, or just for staying longer than 180 days if you have a visa which will allow that.

I don’t intend to carry on with this line of posting as I believe I have put the points forward as objectively as I can, and again if anyone can dig anything out which is written and contradicts the points I have brought out, the interested parties on BE would love to hear from them.

Regards to all

John

Remy-Ireland

[quote=John Chappell;5416127]Hi Remy,

FEMA doesn’t say what visa you need to be able to comply with the act, possibly because it may depend on individual circumstances.

Exactly my point..see my later post!

Also regarding visas .....as i have said before i believe it has a bigger impact on what you can and cant do in India than you think and i refer you back to JP Singhs statement!

After all it determines what 'reason' your in India for.....ie, Business, Media, Tourist etc.
FEMA does mention 'intention to stay' and like i have said before its hard to prove this on a tourist visa. This is where they got Douglas and he was on a 5 year x and had FRRO Residency and had sucessfully registered his title so what chance has anyone on a tourist visa got???

Type of visa does have a bearing on proving 'intention to stay' which is a requirement of FEMA.
BTW John what do you make of Chief Secretary JP Singhs statement?

I also have put my points accross many times and am bored with it all now!
None of us (i dont think) are experts on Indian Law and time will indeed tell the tale!

End of for Me,
Regards,
Remy

dj53

Perhaps we should all start ringing this guy and letting him know some home truths and facts about our selves.


We could start faxing him letters , content to be decided!

Who knows!

Regards David, 9 days to go.

office home fax
0832 2419402 2224908 2415201
2419658
09822 360717

John Chappell

[QUOTE=Remy-Ireland;5416169] Hi Remy

I am not stating what in My Opinion you can or cannot do or what JP Singh says you can or cannot do, I was merely stating what Indian Law SAYS you HAVE to do to purchase property legally, How YOU comply with the various conditions of FEMA will obviously vary according to individual circumstances, but if you satisfy all points of FEMA during your purchase procedure you will have satisfied everything from a legal standpoint, if you are prevented from registering your deeds then you are being prevented illegally.

I personally would not recommend any FN start on a purchase at the moment and especially not on a Tourist visa.

Regards

John

More

[QUOTE=Remy-Ireland;5416169] Remy you are absoloutly right in what you say and if people dont agree then they are in for a shock. In fact what they are doing towards FNs is illegal in Indian law and until they change their interpretation of the rules or until someone takes them to court we are at their mercy. BTW there was two good responses to the Heralds reporting appeared in the Herald today and yesterday. Please dont get fed up posting. As the saying goes "theres none so blind as those who dont want to see"

Best wishes

LINEMAN

On interpreting the rules, has anyone had any thoughts on how the
authorities will deal with the 5 year lease issue. Will people be allowed
to roll them over for another 5 years, or be told you have had your
5 years bugger off.

a_f_d

Remy said yes, and that's all it is. It does not, for example, prove that the holder is classed as a PIO under FEMA (and they might not be!).
Visas is visas and FEMA is FEMA (which is a federal statute that can not be altered by the Goan State government - property ownership law in Goa probably can be but only by a full Act passed by the State Assembly).

AndyD 8-)#

wheatsheaf

You can count on the latter without being cynical. There is no upholding of the law (we all know that) and whatever documents you have will be interpreted in the best interests of a local national. Accept this as a truth. It is precisely for this reason that so many leave the subcontinent and move to the UK where the law is the law is the law, and there is excellence in its implementation. We are in la la land hoping that it works the same there just because the legal system is derived from ours. Can you find even one local politician or High Court judge, or even a single hotelier or developer to stand up in public on your behalf (have any to date?). If no one has since this mess became public, no one ever will. The house of cards would collapse pretty quick if anyone did. In effect, many buildings have been financed by FNs handing money over to developers in a scheme that made "purchase" no more than a "Loan". Now the buildings are up and running, cashflow is good, and your "loan" is still in their hands for 5 years. At the end of 5 years, if you dont kick up a fuss, you will get your loan back with a little something extra. keep your fingers crossed that until then, cholera, malaria, the plague, violence dont upset the economic boom.....financed by you. Oh and its good to know also that you are so grateful for the opportunity to do charitable work for the out of state orphans, stray dogs, and beggars who have the latest cellphones. Come again next year after queuing up at the HC, pay exhorbitant sums for your visa after suitable amount of begging, and return to sit in your 'loan' hopefully with a view of the beach and a functioning septic system.

a_f_d

Remy said OK, I finally found it on Goan Voice - I've commented on this elsewhere. There are related comments in letters to the Herald this week.
Question: were 'x' visas ever actually 'eXtensible' for FN's? Maybe they were and that explains how upset some old hands are getting. otoh the take I always got from hci was that people were pretty much expected to go back there for a new visa when the current one expired.
I think this is another example of people conflating FEMA residency and FR[R]O residency.

On another tack, apropos various comments, does anyone know what the actual law is on buying e.g. bikes/ cars - does it require a FRO Residence Permit or is it a PAN Card? I know that transactions (any) over Rs 25,000 are supposed to need a Pan Card. I also know that although there is general permission for FN's to buy e.g. Indian stocks & shares there is now a new requirement that any such purchase must quote a PAN number, and RBI have issued instructions that FN's should be able to get PAN numbers for that purpose.

AndyD 8-#

a_f_d

Remy said Ah! - what was how they got Douglas - or is that confidential (I would really like to know)

AndyD 8-)# in Goa (_)?

a_f_d

I think Douglas and I discussed this to death ('threadbare' as the Goan papers say).
fwiw my pov is that the important part of e.g. the Acron agreements is a gentlemans' agreement to roll over the lease. Since a new lease replaces the old one every time the agreement is invoked there is never a lease for more than 5 years. The gentlemans' agreement itself cannot itself be enforced by law or you would have a de facto lease for > 5 years.

AndyD 8-)#

Remy-Ireland

I cant believe im being drawn back into this but here goes:

Andy lets look at FEMA.

Non Resident FNs cannot legally purchase property in India you have to first be a Resident FN.

Now, how many of you who have purchased property in Goa on a tourist visa were a Resident FN at the time?

If you were not a resident FN your purchase is illegal and you are breaching FEMA.

You are supposed to be a resident FN first....not purchase property first and then complain about it when you cant obtain residency....you have already breached FEMA.

On visas ......a visa is important in the purchasing process as it shows what capacity you are in India on.

Student and Employment
Business
Tourist
PIO Card etc.....

Now the question should therefore be....can you be achieve residency on a tourist visa? .....I dont think you can because you can not prove 'intention to stay' .......because a tourist is (according to JP SINGH) there to visit the country for a limited time.
So visas do have their roll to play after all you cant get to India without one!

Incidently Andy....Where you a Resident FN at time of purchase or a tourist who went ahead and bought hoping to obtain residency later?

Regards,
Remy

noni

Hi All,

And another one of "their rules" says that after leasing for five years you have to do your 182 days - o.k. but how!!!.

Remy I do agree with you about the tourist visa - but I just wanted to know if it was in black and white - I have my email from our FO. which says you cannot purchase on a tourist visa. etc.

I have read the statement from Singh but cannot bring the video up.

What I was surprised at when we got the D of E letter and went to the Advocates office we were told that you had to be retired to purchase in Goa. Now that was something else none of us had heard about.

Noni