I do feel that the idea of Americans as friends gets a bad rap on here.

I too have experienced the same difficulty of making friends but feel it the reality of my life rather then the people I meet. I have met some wonderful people and have had great experiences but as many are linked to the military I am reluctant to invest too much in what I know will be a temporary friendship.

I do however value the people I work with, they are the most hard working loyal and supportive team I have ever met. We have had a tough week, every person has stepped up and gone above and beyond, we have shared personal struggles and been there for each other.

The US is no different to anywhere else but making friends later in life is generally more difficult. Virtual strangers have offered me help and support and a man who saw me doing my work (with people with developmental disabilties) bought me a book at Christmas because he thought it would give me inspiration. There are good people everywhere we need to seek them out.

I'm glad I've made it up to HALF decent

If you think EdinBURG is bad - you oughta listen to GlasGOW - rhymes with cow! And what's funny (in a sad way) is some older folks refuse to be convinced as to pronunciation, no matter what Keith says. Minor detail he's living there doesn't shift them a bit.

I got confused on the tea thing too - between the English and Scots. Poor Irn-Bru - looking for her dinner I remember Keith kept talking about not calling folks at 5 or 6, because they're having tea, and I kept thinking - what's the big deal, so they're drinking tea?

I really do think later in life it is much harder to make friends here. Perhaps people that came over in college might have a different experience than those in their late 30s or beyond. It's not really different for us septics though, I don't think.

I wish we did have that kind of pub culture here, it sounds lovely. Unfortunately, the only people I've seen that hang out extensively in bars here are drunks. Not to say others don't go, but I mean hang out all the time.

You will be fine then. I have felt really out of the loop because we didn't do elementary school here. I really think that is where a lot of friendships are formed....and kindergarten.
Also here, a lot of extra curricular stuff isn't advertised and people just know about it because they first found out about it in elementary school.
For example there is a school/zoo project thing that the children can do every year from 1st grade through to 8th. I only just found out about it, it is never advertised other than in 1st grade and then everyone knows about it for future years. Lots of stuff like that but you will be in the loop from the word go

Another thing I have noticed in Gainesville is that the society is very segmented. The rich folk all live in this one massive sub division that they are trying to wall off and they don't mix with others. The poor people are all in the NE side of town and just go around shooting each other etc. The middle classes who are obviously always the most civilised and intelligent people are bounced around between the two extremes either side of town.
In my local pub back home you would see hooray Henry's sitting side by side with gippo's, you'd see the judge sitting and chatting over the footie with thieves and bandits. There were no class divisions in the local.

The class issue is one I've discussed with Keith a lot.

The division between blue collar/white collar here. Here's some speculations we've come up with - love to hear opinions.

I must admit most of my friends are of a somewhat similar social class to myself. Not all my friends, and not exactly the same, but most. I think some of it is just tending to meet people where you live, and tending to become friends with people that you have something in common with.

We seem to have the impression that a high-school graduate in the UK has a higher level education than one here in the U.S. So perhaps even the "lower classes" might have more education in the UK than their counterparts in the U.S., thus giving them more in common with the middle/upper classes?

Also, it seems (I'm getting this second hand now realise) that some perfectly bright intelligent people might have a hard time going to University in the UK, because of the expense.

In the U.S., if you have the grades, you generally can go to college. You might end up with some big loans to pay off, but everyone does seem to have the option.

So the perception here can be - if you chose not to get an education, and to do a menial job, that was your choice or all you're capable of. And accomplishment is very much valued here, so the "accomplished" college grad/white collar worker/mid-upper class person is regarded higher in general.

Just to be clear, I am not putting down anyone in the trades (or anyone at all really) - I think many take a lot of skill, and can be more personally satisfying than many "white collar" jobs. I know the satisfaction from doing a home project myself.

Here though, I do often notice a different lifestyle/attitudes between blue collar/white collar - or maybe educated/not. Not saying everyone by any means, but in some cases. It seems like almost as much of a cultural difference as the brits/yanks really.

Often too, it seems that even if the "upper/mid class" person wants to be friendly, at times the "lower class" person isn't interested - feels what? jealous, intimidated, or just different?

I don't know. Just some speculations on possible differences between the countries.

Don't mean to offend anyone with the classifications, not sure what better terms to use, none of them really work well.

Oh Dear!!! Your a snob!!!

Tracy IMHO you have got it so wrong about UK uni vs US uni.

For a start to get a under grad degree takes 3 yrs and another 1 yr for a masters in the UK....here it is 4 and 6 respectively. The annual cost is a fraction of what it costs in the US...multiplied by 4 in the UK...multiplied by 6 in the US. In the everyone is entitled to an extremely low interest government loan...which does not need to be paid back for several years and only after you start earning over a certain amount.

The difference is you have to have a certain degree of intelligence to enter a UK university...here you don't. If you have money, influence, are from a minority group, or can kick, throw or hit a ball...you have a place...even if you only have 2 brain cells.

This doesn't make any sense - fees in England and Wales are the equivalent of $6000 a year, and there are no fees for uni in Scotland. Subsidised loans are available which, AFAIK, only have to be paid back if the graduate earns more than a certain amount.

I read up pretty comprehensibly about college in the US and got the distinct impression that it is usually more expensive. I've heard of people who started saving for college while their kids were still in nappies - sorry, diapers...

No I'm not!!! That's the last impression I wanted to give.

I'm talking about attitudes in general and perceptions, not necessarily my own. I personally like anyone who's intelligent and nice, that's my criteria. I probably like them even if they're nice and unintelligent, but I must admit most of my friends are reasonably smart.

Doesn't anyone else sense a divide between "classes" here though?

Just talking to Keith about uni and expenses. He is saying it depends - his govt. loan just about covers his rent, that's it. He's saying it can be financially difficult or impossible for some. Like I said, I'm getting it secondhand.

And I'd agree, seems you need higher intelligance/gades to get into uni in the UK.

State colleges vs. private have very very different costs. And if parents have means, they are expected to contribute a lot towards their kid's education. If the parents want a "fancy" college education, it would cost a lot.

But for example, a girl I knew whose parents threw her out went entirely on government grants, with a small loan.

And yes, you're right - UK loans only have to be paid off when earning a certain amount. The US ones can be deferred for low income also though.

The amount of money Keith will be out of pocket will be absolutely peanuts compared to the equivalent degree in the US.

Yes !! my college educated BIL ... has less sense than a tree ...
I left school at 14 ... dumb as a rock ..me ..

Maybe if you had actual experience on some of these subjects...instead of just hearsay...you wouldn't get yourself into so much 'hot water'.

One of my little darlings is doing a summer course at Berkeley.

1 class 3 days a week for 5 weeks, i.e. a total of 37.5 hours tuition

Worth 4 units

Cost (including books) is in excess of $1500.



PS: Berkeley is not a private college - in fact the University of California is generally considered one of the cheaper state schools...

Actually not in his case - it will be very similar. We have compared. But I think you're probably right in most cases.

Scotland's 4 years for a bachelor's apparently.