Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA
Reload this Page >

Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Old Feb 7th 2024, 8:37 pm
  #721  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 525
tdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by reltub
Can someone help me understand the NI contributions to pension calculation? I am showing as having made 30 years of full pension contributions, but the projected pension is less than 30/35 of the max of 203.55 Pounds.
Where have you seen this information?

If it is from a government gateway account, it should have an explanation. Otherwise you may be able to set up account and get the information:
http://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

As others have said, it's probably because you were "contracted out" for a period, it which case your record will include this statement:
"You’ve been in a contracted-out pension scheme" and have a link which will click through to show the amount of your "cope" deduction.

Your pension forecast will also say how many additional years you need to contribute to get a full pension.

tdrinker is offline  
Old Feb 12th 2024, 12:55 pm
  #722  
Forum Regular
 
stephend-'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: NE Ohio since 2009
Posts: 113
stephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nice
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by tht
In my experience even with the details in the bank transfer a call is needed to “allocate” it to the record… but I always wait 3-4 months first to see if it posts on the website.
Noted! I'll keep an eye on it!
stephend- is offline  
Old Feb 12th 2024, 2:35 pm
  #723  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 4,128
durham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by stephend-
Noted! I'll keep an eye on it!
The other week while logged onto the HMRC government gateway I had a look at the DWP page and it says that “coming soon” you will be able to pay for voluntary contributions on line. That will be nice if and when that happens.
durham_lad is offline  
Old Feb 12th 2024, 6:14 pm
  #724  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 17
Ravenscroft is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

For those tracking turnaround times on the CF83 my experience is similar to LT1 upthread. I sent in my CF83 on July 21 last year and received a letter (dated 24 January) from HMRC to my US home address today accepting my application to pay Class 2 NIC and detailing my shortfall that I can pay back to 2006. Like others have mentioned on this thread I enclosed a detailed US employment history showing when I was working/not working and for the time periods where I was out of work they put me on Class 3, but the total for the last 15 years is basically about 3,400 quid.

It also confirms that I can pay class 2 by direct debit. What's weird is I got a separate letter today for the 8/10/23 through 6/1/24 period telling me I have voluntary Class 3 contributions due. I'll have to give them a call and find out why they don't have me down for class 2 for the current period.

Last edited by Ravenscroft; Feb 12th 2024 at 6:20 pm. Reason: added date for letter from UK
Ravenscroft is offline  
Old Feb 15th 2024, 10:39 pm
  #725  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Steerpike's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,103
Steerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond reputeSteerpike has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Ravenscroft
...
... What's weird is I got a separate letter today for the 8/10/23 through 6/1/24 period telling me I have voluntary Class 3 contributions due...
Although the focus of this site is obviously 'British', the audience of this thread is largely US residents. I've been in the US for over 40 years and my first instinct is to interpret dates using the US style. I'd suggest you use a less ambiguous date format in your posts. 8/10/23 could be 8-Oct-23 or 10-Aug-23, and 6/1/24 could be 6-Jan-24 or 1-Jun-24. Personally, I always use the 3-letter abbreviation for month rather than the numeric indicator.
Steerpike is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2024, 9:45 am
  #726  
BE Forum Addict
 
Dan725's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Dan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Ravenscroft
For those tracking turnaround times on the CF83 my experience is similar to LT1 upthread. I sent in my CF83 on July 21 last year and received a letter (dated 24 January) from HMRC to my US home address today accepting my application to pay Class 2 NIC and detailing my shortfall that I can pay back to 2006. Like others have mentioned on this thread I enclosed a detailed US employment history showing when I was working/not working and for the time periods where I was out of work they put me on Class 3, but the total for the last 15 years is basically about 3,400 quid.

It also confirms that I can pay class 2 by direct debit. What's weird is I got a separate letter today for the 8/10/23 through 6/1/24 period telling me I have voluntary Class 3 contributions due. I'll have to give them a call and find out why they don't have me down for class 2 for the current period.
Thanks for posting. Going through the same motions at the mo (just preparing to submit form CF83). Good reminder to ensure to submit a detailed work history (which has been continuous employed/self employed since 2006). If I can back-pay the lot, it will put me just one year shy of 35.
Dan725 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2024, 7:20 pm
  #727  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2022
Location: SoCal
Posts: 59
Pierre_Tete is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Dan725
If I can back-pay the lot, it will put me just one year shy of 35.
Thanks to the info I found on this forum I submitted a CF83 last September. I had previously ignored the possibility of doing voluntary N.I. but the Class 2 option seems such a bargain it would be stupid to pass it up. So for 3400 quid you got 18 years' worth back to 2006? That's about 190 pounds for each year - what a deal!
If I do that I will have about 32 years in the UK system, and if I retire next year I will also have 30 years of SS contributions, so 62 years in two systems. As far as I know there is no WEP on the US side because of my 30+ years, so this 'double dipping' is all ok? Hopefully I'm not missing anything here and I will indeed be able to claim from both systems without one side or the other deducting something.

Pierre_Tete is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2024, 7:50 pm
  #728  
BE Forum Addict
 
Dan725's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Dan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond reputeDan725 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

That was the poster above me there ( I'm pretty much in the same boat, but right at the back of the line having jnow just submitted the form)..

​​​​​Somewhat ashamed I haven't gotten to this sooner, but since the lengthy back pay option (i.e since 2006) deadline was extended a couple of times (till April next year), seems I should be able to get in on it. Many far more knowledgeable posters than I here, and it's all in this thread or others somewhere, but yes, if you have 30 years in Social Security you will not be WEPd at all. Furthermore as I understand it, if less than 30 years worked in US, WEP wouldn't apply to the years of voluntary UK contributions (only the prior existing ones made while working in UK).

For me personally, I've only got 19 years in Social Security and I'm not at all sure I will make another 11 as looking at returning to the UK soon. As I'll also get a partial Brithsh Army pension when I turn 60 in 9 years time, I figure I'm staring down the barrel of some serious WEPpage.. There is however scope for me to continue paying into the US social security since I'm self employed working abroad in neither the UK nor US currently (and have been doing so for the last decade). That ability will however go away, I guess, if and when I establish enough time in the UK to establish residency there.
Dan725 is offline  
Old Feb 18th 2024, 9:55 pm
  #729  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 17
Ravenscroft is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

So for 3400 quid you got 18 years' worth back to 2006? That's about 190 pounds for each year - what a deal!
Yes it is! The full year class 2 amount came in at £163.80 per year, but the short intervals where I was unemployed and have to pay Class 3 added up to a bit over £1000, so getting Class 2 makes quite a difference, although as others upthread have pointed out it's a great deal either way.

As to WEP, there's discussion upthread during July of 2023 that covers this quite a bit, but hitting the 30 year threshold does save you from the WEP. Link to the social security document about this.

And cheers to Steerpike for the reminder on date conventions.
Ravenscroft is offline  
Old Feb 19th 2024, 7:16 am
  #730  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 4,128
durham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond reputedurham_lad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Ravenscroft

As to WEP, there's discussion upthread during July of 2023 that covers this quite a bit, but hitting the 30 year threshold does save you from the WEP. Link to the social security document about this.
.
It is a straight line calculation between 20 and 30 years for the reduction of WEP so every year will reduce WEP by 10%. e.g. if your SS is going to be reduced by $500/month for 20 years or less, then every year of additional SS qualifying years reduces the effect by $50 in SS up to 30 years when the reduction is zero.
durham_lad is offline  
Old Feb 24th 2024, 4:29 pm
  #731  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2022
Location: SoCal
Posts: 59
Pierre_Tete is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by stephend-
So I paid my 13 years via bank transfer following these instructions: www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-national-insurance (Class 2 NICs).
I received a letter this week from HMRC accepting my application to pay Class 2 NIC back through 2006. The letter also gave the payment instructions for overseas residents. When you paid via bank transfer was that from a US bank in USD? Is it possible to specify an exact amount in pounds at the recipient's end after exchange rate conversion and fees?
I also have a WISE account so I could pay in GBP from that account using a UK bank sort code, but the instructions for that assume you are paying from the UK and it requires an 18 digit reference code. Has anyone called the helpline to see if you can get an 18 digit reference?

Pierre_Tete is offline  
Old Feb 24th 2024, 5:46 pm
  #732  
BE Forum Addict
 
adele's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC (originally from Huddersfield, W. Yorkshire)
Posts: 1,223
adele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond reputeadele has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

I pay mine each year using Wise. I have a UK account on there and added the recipient account details for HMRC so it's all set up and can be reused each year. I've been making voluntary contributions for the past few years and the reference I've used each time is my national insurance number followed by IC and last name (up to 18 characters total). If you have a short last name I think you add first initial, I can't remember exactly. Not sure if that's still how they do it, will check what it says when the letter comes in April.

Last edited by adele; Feb 24th 2024 at 5:49 pm.
adele is offline  
Old Feb 25th 2024, 1:08 pm
  #733  
Forum Regular
 
stephend-'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: NE Ohio since 2009
Posts: 113
stephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nice
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pierre_Tete
I received a letter this week from HMRC accepting my application to pay Class 2 NIC back through 2006. The letter also gave the payment instructions for overseas residents. When you paid via bank transfer was that from a US bank in USD? Is it possible to specify an exact amount in pounds at the recipient's end after exchange rate conversion and fees?
I also have a WISE account so I could pay in GBP from that account using a UK bank sort code, but the instructions for that assume you are paying from the UK and it requires an 18 digit reference code. Has anyone called the helpline to see if you can get an 18 digit reference?
I paid from my UK bank account after transferring money to it using XE.

When I send money using XE, I can either specify how much I want to send in USD or how much I want to receive in GBP. I'm not certain, but I would imagine your US bank would offer something similar.
stephend- is offline  
Old Feb 25th 2024, 2:39 pm
  #734  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2022
Location: SoCal
Posts: 59
Pierre_Tete is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

[QUOTE=adele;13242286 the reference I've used each time is my national insurance number followed by IC and last name (up to 18 characters total)[/QUOTE]

On www.gov.uk that's the reference number format described if your account is located overseas (using IBAN transfers). For payments from the UK (using UK sort code) it says you need to call the helpline to get your code. I guess WISE users fall into a slightly different category of living overseas but paying with a UK bank sort code. It's good to know the international 18 digit international code works for that case too, but maybe first I'll try calling them just to confirm (no doubt there will be a long time on hold.....).


Pierre_Tete is offline  
Old Feb 25th 2024, 5:35 pm
  #735  
Forum Regular
 
stephend-'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: NE Ohio since 2009
Posts: 113
stephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nicestephend- is just really nice
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pierre_Tete
On www.gov.uk that's the reference number format described if your account is located overseas (using IBAN transfers). For payments from the UK (using UK sort code) it says you need to call the helpline to get your code. I guess WISE users fall into a slightly different category of living overseas but paying with a UK bank sort code. It's good to know the international 18 digit international code works for that case too, but maybe first I'll try calling them just to confirm (no doubt there will be a long time on hold.....).
They keep changing the Class 2 NIC Payments page for some unknown reason. When I paid in January of this year (2024) it looked like this:





I called HMRC to double check what to use as a Overseas Payer using a UK bank account (btw they answered within a couple of minutes) and they confirmed I had to use the NI Number+IC+Name as the reference number.

Now the website appears to have deleted the instructions for Overseas Payers paying from a UK bank account. No idea why.

Last edited by stephend-; Feb 25th 2024 at 5:39 pm.
stephend- is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.