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Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Old Mar 10th 2024, 7:30 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

I had a note that I would max out in 2022, but checking my record today it says I still need 3 more years to reach the 203.85, despite having 36 full years and 2 partial years (around university time).
That means I'll end up with 39 (possibly 40) full years before maxing out. Is that due to a contracted out company pension?

It's getting close, so no big deal, just unexpected.
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Old Mar 10th 2024, 8:28 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Yes, I ended up with 40 years to get the full pension. I had been contracted out many years ago, not that knew it at the time 😁.

Originally Posted by OldJuddian
I had a note that I would max out in 2022, but checking my record today it says I still need 3 more years to reach the 203.85, despite having 36 full years and 2 partial years (around university time).
That means I'll end up with 39 (possibly 40) full years before maxing out. Is that due to a contracted out company pension?

It's getting close, so no big deal, just unexpected.
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Old Mar 13th 2024, 4:13 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

I'm finding this thread very helpful, but I couldn't find a specific piece of information. Sorry if this is somewhere on the thread, but I couldn't find it after searching carefully.
I'm hoping to pay voluntary NICs, but when I try to start the payment process on the HMRC web site I am asked for an 18 digit reference number starting with a 60.



I tried to phone, but after 30 minutes and $69 I couldn't get through. I sent an email requesting this reference number, but their response was that this is not available for overseas residents. Am I missing something? The HMRC app gives me the same message.

Any help would be appreciated,
Cheers, Andy
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Old Mar 13th 2024, 4:59 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Updatedusername
.... I tried to phone, but after 30 minutes and $69 I couldn't get through. I sent an email requesting this reference number, but their response was that this is not available for overseas residents. Am I missing something? .....
Were you phoning the general NI help line, or the International Desk?
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Old Mar 13th 2024, 5:35 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Were you phoning the general NI help line, or the International Desk?
Hi Pulaski,
I called the outside UK number listed below,
Andy


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Old Mar 13th 2024, 7:15 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

I would try and get a Skype number or something like that. I did that when I moved here and it only cost a few cents a minute to call back to the UK. Did multiple calls to HMRC and a few other places and I never ran out of the $10 credit I put on there.
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Old Mar 15th 2024, 9:06 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Updatedusername
I'm finding this thread very helpful, but I couldn't find a specific piece of information. Sorry if this is somewhere on the thread, but I couldn't find it after searching carefully.
I'm hoping to pay voluntary NICs, but when I try to start the payment process on the HMRC web site I am asked for an 18 digit reference number starting with a 60.



I tried to phone, but after 30 minutes and $69 I couldn't get through. I sent an email requesting this reference number, but their response was that this is not available for overseas residents. Am I missing something? The HMRC app gives me the same message.

Any help would be appreciated,
Cheers, Andy
I'm at the same stage myself - ready to pay voluntary NICs. I ran into the same problem you did, the 18-digit reference number, but if you're like me (outside the UK), that's not what you need.

In the letter I received telling me HMRC accepted my application to pay Class 2, there instructions about how to pay from overseas - not crystal clear, but they do work if you follow them carefully. You will end up on this page...

https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-natio...-bank-transfer

Overseas payments

Use the following details to make a payment if your account is overseas:
  • account number (IBAN) - GB49 BARC 2020 4830 9447 93
  • Bank Identifier Code (BIC) - BARCGB22
  • account name - HMRC NIC receipts

Reference number Use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’, your surname then your initial. If your bank limits you to a certain amount of characters, you should use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’ and as much of your surname as possible. Example

If your name is Anne Jones, you’d write the reference as QQ123456AICJONESA

So your reference number is your NI number+IC+surname+initial

The reason I came here today was to ask something else about the same process. I went to Fidelity to send an international wire to HMRC to make my payment, and they couldn't complete their own form because they need the receiving bank's sort code (6 digits). The instructions in the link above do include a bank sort code but that's only for payments within the UK. HMRC tells overseas payers to use a bank identifier code (BIC) in this case BARCGB22. Fidelity wouldn't accept that.

So for the folks who have successfully paid their voluntary NICs - how did you do it?

Cheers

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Old Mar 15th 2024, 10:41 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by 00derek
HMRC tells overseas payers to use a bank identifier code (BIC) in this case BARCGB22. Fidelity wouldn't accept that.
Cheers
Perhaps Fidelity doesn't know what it is doing, or for some reason that BIC code shows up as invalid? Have you tried transferring funds from Fidelity to your bank and have them wire the funds? A Swift/BIC code should be good for international wire transfers. I've done that in the past, though not for NIC. I plan to use my Wise account for NICs.
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Old Mar 15th 2024, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by 00derek
BARCGB22.
Cheers
  • And in fact i just set up HMRC recipient in my Wise account from my USD account using that BIC code and it validated correctly. The UK sort code from my GBP account also validates. So what's up with Fidelity?
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Old Mar 15th 2024, 12:47 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pierre_Tete
  • And in fact i just set up HMRC recipient in my Wise account from my USD account using that BIC code and it validated correctly. The UK sort code from my GBP account also validates. So what's up with Fidelity?
Setting up Fidelity to transfer to Wise is in progress...
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Old Mar 16th 2024, 4:31 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by 00derek
I'm at the same stage myself - ready to pay voluntary NICs. I ran into the same problem you did, the 18-digit reference number, but if you're like me (outside the UK), that's not what you need.

In the letter I received telling me HMRC accepted my application to pay Class 2, there instructions about how to pay from overseas - not crystal clear, but they do work if you follow them carefully. You will end up on this page...

https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-natio...-bank-transfer

Overseas payments

Use the following details to make a payment if your account is overseas:
  • account number (IBAN) - GB49 BARC 2020 4830 9447 93
  • Bank Identifier Code (BIC) - BARCGB22
  • account name - HMRC NIC receipts

Reference number Use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’, your surname then your initial. If your bank limits you to a certain amount of characters, you should use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’ and as much of your surname as possible. Example

If your name is Anne Jones, you’d write the reference as QQ123456AICJONESA

So your reference number is your NI number+IC+surname+initial

The reason I came here today was to ask something else about the same process. I went to Fidelity to send an international wire to HMRC to make my payment, and they couldn't complete their own form because they need the receiving bank's sort code (6 digits). The instructions in the link above do include a bank sort code but that's only for payments within the UK. HMRC tells overseas payers to use a bank identifier code (BIC) in this case BARCGB22. Fidelity wouldn't accept that.

So for the folks who have successfully paid their voluntary NICs - how did you do it?

Cheers
Thanks Derek,

That's very helpful. Good luck with your voluntary contributions.

I just tried my first payment based on the reference number, so I'll let you know how it goes

Andy

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Old Mar 18th 2024, 7:38 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Updatedusername
Thanks Derek,

That's very helpful. Good luck with your voluntary contributions.

I just tried my first payment based on the reference number, so I'll let you know how it goes

Andy

I am about to do the same thing i.e. use my NI number followed by IC +surname+initial

I hope it blooming well works!!
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Old Mar 18th 2024, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by 00derek
I'm at the same stage myself - ready to pay voluntary NICs. I ran into the same problem you did, the 18-digit reference number, but if you're like me (outside the UK), that's not what you need.

In the letter I received telling me HMRC accepted my application to pay Class 2, there instructions about how to pay from overseas - not crystal clear, but they do work if you follow them carefully. You will end up on this page...

https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-natio...-bank-transfer

Overseas payments

Use the following details to make a payment if your account is overseas:
  • account number (IBAN) - GB49 BARC 2020 4830 9447 93
  • Bank Identifier Code (BIC) - BARCGB22
  • account name - HMRC NIC receipts

Reference number Use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’, your surname then your initial. If your bank limits you to a certain amount of characters, you should use your National Insurance number followed by ‘IC’ and as much of your surname as possible. Example

If your name is Anne Jones, you’d write the reference as QQ123456AICJONESA

So your reference number is your NI number+IC+surname+initial

The reason I came here today was to ask something else about the same process. I went to Fidelity to send an international wire to HMRC to make my payment, and they couldn't complete their own form because they need the receiving bank's sort code (6 digits). The instructions in the link above do include a bank sort code but that's only for payments within the UK. HMRC tells overseas payers to use a bank identifier code (BIC) in this case BARCGB22. Fidelity wouldn't accept that.

So for the folks who have successfully paid their voluntary NICs - how did you do it?

Cheers

Sounds like Fidelity are not using a WIRE transfer form- which is what it needs to send the funds.
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Old Mar 23rd 2024, 5:05 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by shelley748
Sounds like Fidelity are not using a WIRE transfer form- which is what it needs to send the funds.
No, they were using a wire form...

link

It's just that their own form required a 6-digit sort code for wires in UK pounds, which HMRC didn't provide in the instructions - because the IBAN is sufficient. Maybe the sort code digits are in the IBAN somewhere, IDK.

Anyway, I paid from my Wise account and it appears to have worked flawlessly using the IBAN.

EDIT
I sent my CF83 form on 14 July 2023, so the whole process has taken 8 months.

Last edited by 00derek; Mar 23rd 2024 at 5:08 am.
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Old Mar 23rd 2024, 10:00 am
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

It looks like you can now apply on-line: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to...en-abroad-cf83

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