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Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Old Oct 14th 2023, 3:26 pm
  #661  
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

If you ever contracted out of SERPs then they make a deduction for that, and likely that is why you are not getting the full pension with 35 years of contributions. The amount of the SERPs deduction is based upon your earnings and how long you contracted out. It should be identified on your pension forecast as a COPE deduction. To receive the full pension you can contribute post 2016 years and (at todays rates) will receive an additional £5.82 each week for each additional post 2016 year contributed. For various reasons that I won’t get into because it is complicated almost everyone with 35 full years of contributions and a COPE deduction will be able to recoup the COPE deduction with less than 7 additional years and so the easiest way forward now is to pay for additional post 2016 years. Divide your COPE deduction by £5.82 (at todays rates) round up the answer to the next whole number and that is how many post 2016 additional years that you need.

The part of the letter that states you can contribute up to 12 additional years is simply stating that you are eligible to contribute for those years, but it does not mean you will get a benefit from doing so. Once you reach the state pension maximum of £203.85, additional years won’t get you anything. And you can have gaps in your record so there is no need to go back to the earliest missing years.

For anyone who needs to go back to pre 2016 years to get 35 full years the situation is a bit more complex as some of those pre 2016 years won’t result in an additional benefit. The reasons are complicated but there is a lot of information on that buried within this thread. In any case the easiest way forward for most is to make up any shortfall with post 2016 years.
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Old Oct 14th 2023, 4:26 pm
  #662  
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Doesn't the letter tell you how many more years you need to contribute to get a full pension? If not, look up your pension forecast online, because this will tell you.
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
Otherwise, use Glasgow Girl's method to calculate it (I think you round to the nearest whole number, but am not certain and an official statement is better).

As you stopped work in May 2022, class 3 should apply for tax year 2022/23 onwards and class 2 for earlier years.
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Old Oct 14th 2023, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Thank you Glasgow Girl, yes I was contracted out ( not that I knew it at the time!), your reply is extremely helpful to helping me understand.
tdrinker, no it doesn’t say how many years I need to pay, however when I spoke to somebody ages ago, he did provide amounts from 2016 for 5 years - but said the last year wasn’t worth it- so I’m assuming I need to pay 4 years, but using Glasgow Girls calculation I need to pay 9. Thanks for explaining about why it’s class 3 note the amount for 22/23 is a lot higher.

I feel better prepared for the telephone call to the Pension Centre armed with both of your very helpful replies.
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Old Oct 14th 2023, 5:26 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Glasgow Girl
Divide your COPE deduction by £5.82 (at todays rates) round up the answer to the next whole number and that is how many post 2016 additional years that you need.
I think the calculation is to divide the difference between the maximum pension and your pension forecast by £5.82 to get the number of additional years to contribute. I.e. the full pension is £203.85. If your pension forecast is £170, the calculation is: (203.85 - 170) / 5.82 = 5.8 rounded to 6.
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Old Oct 14th 2023, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by tdrinker
I think the calculation is to divide the difference between the maximum pension and your pension forecast by £5.82 to get the number of additional years to contribute. I.e. the full pension is £203.85. If your pension forecast is £170, the calculation is: (203.85 - 170) / 5.82 = 5.8 rounded to 6.
Yes, that is correct. Good catch. I forgot that some of the COPE deduction can be made up with earnings related supplements earned prior to 2016. Hopefully that means that Reidies only needs 5 more years as advised some years ago. They probably advised the sixth year is not worth it because 5 years will get you close enough to the maximum pension, but if you qualify for Class 2 rates for the historical years it may well be worth it. At current class 2 rates it will cost about £180 to buy the shortfall, if you assumed you will collect for 20 years you would need to add £9 a year to break even (ignoring the time value of money) or about 18 pence a week. Class 3 rates are about 5 times Class 2 rates so would need almost £1 to added to the weekly pension to make it worthwhile. In my case adding the last year at Class 2 rates will only increase my pension by about 10 pence so not worth it, but I am doing it anyway because it will be easier to check I am getting the right amount each year if I get the maximum.
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Old Oct 15th 2023, 1:10 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Tdrinker and Glasgow Girl, thanks for the update. I checked online and note that my forecasted state pension has increased from the amount in the letter I received in December 2022 👍🏻. Using the calculation above it looks as if I only need 2 years contributions to get the full Uk state pension. Do you know if I can choose which 2 years to pay as some years (e.g. 22/23 ) are more expensive?

Thank you both for your very helpful assistance.
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Old Oct 15th 2023, 1:16 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

You can choose which years to contribute. Be careful of selecting tax years 2015/16 or earlier as they might not increase your pension (it depends on your situation, which you'd want to check before paying). Any tax year 2016/17 or later will increase your pension without doubt (until you have achieved the full pension).
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Old Oct 20th 2023, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Does anyone know if there's any issues with submitting form CF83 a couple of years after one left the UK? And if I do that, would I be able to pay class 2 NIC retroactively since the date I left, or only going forward from when I submit CF83? (Or even from when it's approved?)
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Old Oct 20th 2023, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

You can submit the form whenever and class 2 will apply from when you left the UK if you are eligible.
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Old Oct 25th 2023, 3:58 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Thanks again for your help.
I spoke to the Future Pensions Centre last week and the very helpful person advised which years I could contribute - all post tax year 16/17. They also advised me to contact HMRC to make the payment.
I called HMRC yesterday - an equally helpful person advised they don’t accept telephone payments, but was able to mark my NI file with the years (5) that I want to top up. They also went through the process of how I could pay by bank transfer/ the reference number to use/ bank details etc. it was quite a painless process in the end 😀
I’ve now made the payment and it should show on my file in around 8-12 weeks.
Hope the above helps anyone going through the process.

Originally Posted by tdrinker
You can choose which years to contribute. Be careful of selecting tax years 2015/16 or earlier as they might not increase your pension (it depends on your situation, which you'd want to check before paying). Any tax year 2016/17 or later will increase your pension without doubt (until you have achieved the full pension).
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Old Oct 25th 2023, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

According to the Daily Mail (so it must be correct) they are working on a website for release next spring that should make it easier and faster to determine what years can/should be paid to top up the UK state pension, and will allow payment to be made online. If it works that should make this process a lot faster and easier for many in the future, and likely provide much better visibility into the status of the process. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...U0ODU5LjAuMC4w
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Old Nov 15th 2023, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

blimey I'm still waiting for a response/action after sending in the class 2 form. Received June 2023 says on my app.
Is the process really that slow? How will I be notified of direct debits to be taken from my account if eligible?
I want to pay some previous years since I left the UK, assuming I have to wait for them to process my request for class 2 first.

Thanks
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Old Nov 15th 2023, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by alfista1
blimey I'm still waiting for a response/action after sending in the class 2 form. Received June 2023 says on my app.
Is the process really that slow? How will I be notified of direct debits to be taken from my account if eligible?
I want to pay some previous years since I left the UK, assuming I have to wait for them to process my request for class 2 first.

Thanks
thats only 5 months, I think mine as over 12 months to be processed and that was pre CV19, so you may need to adjust your expectations…. You can’t have it credited to your record until you have been approved, but the tax man will always take your random donations….
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Old Nov 15th 2023, 5:42 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Think the delay for processing is about one year right now. It might get better when they introduce the new online system in the spring of next year, although I would not place any bets on that. Also, it might get better as as they clear the backlog of folks that applied prior to the original April 2023 deadline. Either way you are going to need patience. I think there is an app where you can get more specific details on your applications timeline, perhaps someone else will provide details on that.
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Old Nov 15th 2023, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

They received my wife's application on March 23, 2023 and say that she can "expect a reply by 26 December, 2023", so the processing time has improved.

You can check progress on-line with a UK Government Gateway log-in. Some have reported problems setting up an account, but my wife was able to do so without problems having left the UK many years earlier.
They will send an OTP to US cell phones.

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