Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
#601
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 677
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
44 weeks!! OMG
I thought the date 17th July was fitting in with their timeframe of the deadline approx 23rd July for the NI contribution year cut off date.
Hope I don't miss another year due to them taking so long.
I thought the date 17th July was fitting in with their timeframe of the deadline approx 23rd July for the NI contribution year cut off date.
Hope I don't miss another year due to them taking so long.
#602
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
The extended deadline to clear the backlog and collect payments for years as far back as 2006-07 has been extended to 5 April. 2025, so you won't miss a year even if it takes 44 weeks to process your application.
#603
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
This question has probably been answered, but here goes. We are applying to see how much my husband must pay for any State pension shortfall. He had paid up to 30 yrs, but they changed it to 35 years just after that. I also qualify for a small pension based on my work record and child benefit. I have only worked 6 yrs and a few months while living here. I would have been eligible for child benefits until my youngest was 18, 8 yrs after we left. Can I apply to make up for the shortfall, and if so, do I list my years of employment on a separate sheet with the form?
#604
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
I'm very impressed with the efficiency with which my State Pension application was dealt with. Three weeks after sending off my application the supporting documents I'd sent arrived by mail back here. And a few days later my first pension payment appeared in my US bank account.
#605
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
I also qualify for a small pension based on my work record and child benefit. I have only worked 6 yrs and a few months while living here. I would have been eligible for child benefits until my youngest was 18, 8 yrs after we left. Can I apply to make up for the shortfall, and if so, do I list my years of employment on a separate sheet with the form?
I posted this a few weeks ago:
While much more than Class 2, Class 3 contributions are still a very good investment.
For every year of Class 3 contributions, which currently costs £907.40, after retirement you will receive, based on today's full state pension, an additional £5.82 per week of pension. So it will take 155.8 weeks (almost exactly 3 years) of retirement to collect increased pension payments equivalent to the amount you pay in Class 3 contributions. This calculation is true whether you pay one year of additional contributions at the Class 3 rate, or thirty two years. This is like buying an annuity that pays 33%, .... though to be objective you would need to discount your investment by the number of years until you retire* .... so the closer you are to retirement, the better a Class 3 investment looks.
* While there are many possible illustrative calculations that could be performed to estimate the value of future investment returns, if we assume that the UK state pension will increase at 3% per annum, in ten years the £5.82 per week (302.64/yr) will have increased to £7.82 per week (406.72/yr). Now if we assume you would have invested the money used to pay for Class 3 contributions to earn a return of 8% per annum, the £907.40 invested today would be worth £1,959.01 in 10 years. So using those estimates, the increased pension of £406 will have cost you £1,959 (£907 at 8% compound growth), which is a life annuity of 20.76% .... and there is no way to get an annuity anywhere near that for a 67 year old.
FWIW using those estimates, your investment will be paid back in just under 4 years and 10 months of retirement.
I just checked, the best annuity rates today [May 2023] for a 67 year old man in NC are in the 7%-7½% range, so my projection of 20.76% ten years in the future completely blows todays annuity rates out of the water. So while Class 3 seems expensive, it is still an extraordinarily good deal that you are unlikely to get close to with any other investment. Even extending those calculations forward to the twenty year point, the return would still be equivalent to an annuity paying 12.9%.
For every year of Class 3 contributions, which currently costs £907.40, after retirement you will receive, based on today's full state pension, an additional £5.82 per week of pension. So it will take 155.8 weeks (almost exactly 3 years) of retirement to collect increased pension payments equivalent to the amount you pay in Class 3 contributions. This calculation is true whether you pay one year of additional contributions at the Class 3 rate, or thirty two years. This is like buying an annuity that pays 33%, .... though to be objective you would need to discount your investment by the number of years until you retire* .... so the closer you are to retirement, the better a Class 3 investment looks.
* While there are many possible illustrative calculations that could be performed to estimate the value of future investment returns, if we assume that the UK state pension will increase at 3% per annum, in ten years the £5.82 per week (302.64/yr) will have increased to £7.82 per week (406.72/yr). Now if we assume you would have invested the money used to pay for Class 3 contributions to earn a return of 8% per annum, the £907.40 invested today would be worth £1,959.01 in 10 years. So using those estimates, the increased pension of £406 will have cost you £1,959 (£907 at 8% compound growth), which is a life annuity of 20.76% .... and there is no way to get an annuity anywhere near that for a 67 year old.
FWIW using those estimates, your investment will be paid back in just under 4 years and 10 months of retirement.
I just checked, the best annuity rates today [May 2023] for a 67 year old man in NC are in the 7%-7½% range, so my projection of 20.76% ten years in the future completely blows todays annuity rates out of the water. So while Class 3 seems expensive, it is still an extraordinarily good deal that you are unlikely to get close to with any other investment. Even extending those calculations forward to the twenty year point, the return would still be equivalent to an annuity paying 12.9%.
Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 3rd 2023 at 5:45 pm.
#606
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 525
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
This question has probably been answered, but here goes. We are applying to see how much my husband must pay for any State pension shortfall. He had paid up to 30 yrs, but they changed it to 35 years just after that. I also qualify for a small pension based on my work record and child benefit. I have only worked 6 yrs and a few months while living here. I would have been eligible for child benefits until my youngest was 18, 8 yrs after we left. Can I apply to make up for the shortfall, and if so, do I list my years of employment on a separate sheet with the form?
The first thing you should do is check your record and find out how many years contributions you currently have.
#607
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
I'm very impressed with the efficiency with which my State Pension application was dealt with. Three weeks after sending off my application the supporting documents I'd sent arrived by mail back here. And a few days later my first pension payment appeared in my US bank account.
What 'supporting documents' did you have to provide? I guess I need to start gathering info ...
#608
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
Your husband should apply to pay Class 2 contributions, assuming he was working before and after leaving the UK, and has not yet reached retirement age. The current cost for Class 2 is just over £160/yr, so about £815 total. His pension will increase sufficient to repay that amount after about 7½ months of retirement.
Firstly, child benefit paid by the British government is conditional on you being resident in the UK, so you ceased to be eligible at the time you left the UK, however it sounds like you are probably eligible for Class 3 contributions, (and maybe some Class 2 for times when you were working) to boost your pension entitlement, which are much higher (now over £900/yr) than Class 2, but are still an extremely good investment, expecially if you are close to retirement age. You are likely eligible to pay for years as far back as 2006-07, and depending on your abilty to obtain a personal loan, it may be beneficial (profitable to you) to borrow money to pay for the NI contributions to boost your pension. Please note I am not recommending borrowing, you would have to do your own calculations and/or get advice to reach your own conclusion, but I suspect that if you are close, or even not-so-close to retirement, that borrowing to fund Class 3 contributions would be financially beneficial for you.
I posted this a few weeks ago:
Firstly, child benefit paid by the British government is conditional on you being resident in the UK, so you ceased to be eligible at the time you left the UK, however it sounds like you are probably eligible for Class 3 contributions, (and maybe some Class 2 for times when you were working) to boost your pension entitlement, which are much higher (now over £900/yr) than Class 2, but are still an extremely good investment, expecially if you are close to retirement age. You are likely eligible to pay for years as far back as 2006-07, and depending on your abilty to obtain a personal loan, it may be beneficial (profitable to you) to borrow money to pay for the NI contributions to boost your pension. Please note I am not recommending borrowing, you would have to do your own calculations and/or get advice to reach your own conclusion, but I suspect that if you are close, or even not-so-close to retirement, that borrowing to fund Class 3 contributions would be financially beneficial for you.
I posted this a few weeks ago:
#609
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
You now have until April 2025 to get your request in, get whatever answers you need, and arrange payment. That should be ample time, though you should get started ASAP to secure your place in the queue.
#611
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
If you receive karma it shows up on your profile page with activity on threads you're subscribed to, and threads where your posts have been quoted.
Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 4th 2023 at 1:03 am.
#612
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
#613
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
OK, I have my Birth Certificate somewhere - a hand-written document quaintly filled out in cursive that is barely legible! I presume they want originals, not a copy. And I presume a British Passport is not a substitute? I was briefly married/divorced to a US citizen (early 90s), I presume they wouldn't want any paperwork regarding that? I have no idea where that might be!
I haven't looked at my Birth Cert for a long time; it's so quaint! It states the 'occupation of father' (but not mother). I'm guessing this says 'Wire Coiler' (Radio Valve Works) ... how's that for a job!
I wonder if Donald Trump would accept this !
I haven't looked at my Birth Cert for a long time; it's so quaint! It states the 'occupation of father' (but not mother). I'm guessing this says 'Wire Coiler' (Radio Valve Works) ... how's that for a job!
I wonder if Donald Trump would accept this !
#614
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,009
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
This question has probably been answered, but here goes. We are applying to see how much my husband must pay for any State pension shortfall. He had paid up to 30 yrs, but they changed it to 35 years just after that. I also qualify for a small pension based on my work record and child benefit. I have only worked 6 yrs and a few months while living here. I would have been eligible for child benefits until my youngest was 18, 8 yrs after we left. Can I apply to make up for the shortfall, and if so, do I list my years of employment on a separate sheet with the form?
#615
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?
OK, I have my Birth Certificate somewhere - a hand-written document quaintly filled out in cursive that is barely legible! I presume they want originals, not a copy. And I presume a British Passport is not a substitute? I was briefly married/divorced to a US citizen (early 90s), I presume they wouldn't want any paperwork regarding that?