Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA
Reload this Page >

Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Old Mar 24th 2024, 4:21 pm
  #751  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 64
00derek is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by MidAtlantic
It looks like you can now apply on-line: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to...en-abroad-cf83
Brilliant!

I just applied online for my wife - wish they'd done that sooner
00derek is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2024, 4:28 pm
  #752  
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,493
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by 00derek
.... It's just that their own form required a 6-digit sort code for wires in UK pounds, which HMRC didn't provide in the instructions - because the IBAN is sufficient. Maybe the sort code digits are in the IBAN somewhere, .....
The sort code is part of the IBAN, it's the six digits preceding the account number, which is the last set of digits in the IBAN string. (There may be some zeros added in front of your account number (so between the sort code and the account number), to bring it up to a standard length.)

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 25th 2024 at 4:31 pm.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2024, 8:12 pm
  #753  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: texas
Posts: 910
jjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond reputejjmb has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

OK, need some advice. We have finally been able to sign up for the Government Gateway thanks to the new app, to check on our NI records and apply to buy NI stamps.
My application was straight forward as I did not work before coming over here and being in receipt of child benefit. I only worked for a few years here, while the money draining sprogs were in University, so don't qualify for US SS. On my appplication, I put down our departure date as March 2000, as you can't claim Child Benefit, once you are aboard.
My husband's is much more complex. When we came over in 2000, he was on secondment for nearly 2 years. That means even though he was working here, he was actually paid in the UK. In 2002, he transferred to the work place here, officially. Since then the company he orignally work for no longer exists in the UK, so has no address except as an off shoot and his company here became a separate company. The company has changed hands again since then,
Question: although we left in March 2000, he was still paying NI contributions up Feb 2002. How does he fill in the form for date of departure. Does he put in March 2000 or Feb 2002?
No address exists for the company in the UK.
He only has 5 yrs to pay, as he made a voluntary payment just before the 35 yr rule came into being, so I am not even sure it's worth the effort, unlike myself who only had 23 yrs. Hopefully, I can make missing years up, as it would nice to have some money of my own for a change. I worked out, it will cost me the equivilant of just under 1 yr of pension to make for those years, so it seems worthwhile.

Last edited by jjmb; Mar 25th 2024 at 8:22 pm.
jjmb is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2024, 8:17 pm
  #754  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
mrken30's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Portlandia Metro
Posts: 7,427
mrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond reputemrken30 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by MidAtlantic
It looks like you can now apply on-line: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to...en-abroad-cf83
Wish the HMRC person has told me this in January. I posted my application 2 months ago and still waiting for a reply.

Just applied again, hopefully this doesn't confuse HMRC
mrken30 is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2024, 1:36 am
  #755  
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,493
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by jjmb
.... Question: although we left in March 2000, he was still paying NI contributions up Feb 2002. How does he fill in the form for date of departure. Does he put in March 2000 or Feb 2002?
No address exists for the company in the UK.
He only has 5 yrs to pay, as he made a voluntary payment just before the 35 yr rule came into being, so I am not even sure it's worth the effort, unlike myself who only had 23 yrs. Hopefully, I can make missing years up, as it would nice to have some money of my own for a change. I worked out, it will cost me the equivilant of just under 1 yr of pension to make for those years, so it seems worthwhile.
Both are worth doing, as the return on both (investments) is extremely good, especially if you are eligible for, request, and are approved for Class 2 contributions. In your husband's case, he'll get an extra 5/35, or about 14%, and who wouldn't want an pension 14% greater? ..... And in both your cases, the amount of Class 2 contributions is returned to you in increased pension after about 7½ months of retirement.

Your husband's situation is more than a little strange, and I don't recall seeing one like it, where someone left the UK, but continued having NI deducted from his pay. .... I would go with using the date of him coming off the UK payroll (ceasing NI contributions deducted from his pay), as the day he left, as that is when he functionally left. If he tries to use the date he physically left the UK, I can imagine that causing confusion somewhere down the line when the date doesn't line up with his payroll deducted NI contributions.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 26th 2024 at 1:39 am.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Mar 26th 2024, 2:24 pm
  #756  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 541
tdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond reputetdrinker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pulaski
I would go with using the date of him coming off the UK payroll (ceasing NI contributions deducted from his pay), as the day he left, as that is when he functionally left. If he tries to use the date he physically left the UK, I can imagine that causing confusion somewhere down the line when the date doesn't line up with his payroll deducted NI contributions.
Agree, let sleeping dogs lie. The objective is filling the NI gap and this is the relevant date.
tdrinker is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2024, 12:08 am
  #757  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2022
Location: SoCal
Posts: 63
Pierre_Tete is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Both are worth doing, as the return on both (investments) is extremely good, especially if you are eligible for, request, and are approved for Class 2 contributions.
When I first read this thread last year I saw that Pulaski and others commented that voluntary NIC's were a great investment, so I ran the numbers and yes, it is indeed a surprisingly good return on investment. So I duly coughed up 17 years' worth of Class 2 back payments.

But does anyone know *why* it is so generous? Did someone slip in a typo when the legislation was written (maybe it should have been 13.15, not 3.15 per week......😕)?

Pierre_Tete is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2024, 12:30 am
  #758  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 352
postbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond reputepostbox134 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pierre_Tete

But does anyone know *why* it is so generous? Did someone slip in a typo when the legislation was written (maybe it should have been 13.15, not 3.15 per week......😕)?
Maybe someone in a high place is good at lobbying for it But then again for the really wealthy it's small change (unlike say non-dom)
postbox134 is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2024, 12:30 am
  #759  
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,493
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by Pierre_Tete
..... But does anyone know *why* it is so generous? Did someone slip in a typo when the legislation was written (maybe it should have been 13.15, not 3.15 per week......😕)?
It's to do with the overall funding of NI and the various Classes of NI contributions, primarily as relates to self employment, where the self employed pay Class 2 plus a variable amount based on their income, and somehow, if you're working outside the UK, and not earning anything chargeable to British income tax and the variable NI charge, you are still allowed to pay Class 2 only and get full credit. Which still makes no sense, but when there was talk a few years ago of abolishing Class 2, it was because of a reorganization of NI charges for the self employed, not to stop us expats from taking advantage of Class 2. And the possible end to Class 2 which has just appeared again a few weeks ago, it was in relation to a possible wholesale reorganization of the entire NI funding scheme, so again, nothing to do with us expats, though from what I saw, the reform, if it goes through, would end any sort of NI contributions not linked to earned income chargeable to income tax in the UK.

Last edited by Pulaski; Mar 27th 2024 at 12:33 am.
Pulaski is offline  
Old May 6th 2024, 8:22 pm
  #760  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 688
alfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

I have finally received my class 2 response and can now pay class 2.
The form shows I can pay the lower rate for only certain years - 2008/2011-2013 only at 163.80 GBP and this past year 179.40 GBP onwards
Why have I just got selected years at the lower rate and others at the full class3 does anyone know?

Also I want to pay by bank transfer. They give their bank details but not anyway to specify which years you are paying for.
How do I pay for specific years like just 2008, 2011-2013 at the lower class 2 rate?

Thanks


If I pay by bank transfer jsut 163.80 GBP will they apply it to one of those years? Then another transfer of 163.80 until all those have been credited?
There is one for 800.80 (2021) - If I send in that exact amount they'll cross of 2021?
Not clear at all. Should be able to specify on the transfer reference the year in addition

Last edited by alfista1; May 6th 2024 at 8:32 pm.
alfista1 is offline  
Old May 6th 2024, 8:29 pm
  #761  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 10,026
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by alfista1
I have finally received my class 2 response and can now pay class 2.
The form shows I can pay the lower rate for only certain years - 2008/2011-2013 only at 163.80 GBP and this past year 179.40 GBP onwards
Why have I just got selected years at the lower rate and others at the full class3 does anyone know?

Also I want to pay by bank transfer. They give their bank details but not anyway to specify which years you are paying for.
How do I pay for specific years like just 2008, 2011-2013 at the lower class 2 rate?

Thanks
In a similar situation at first I just paid the amounts, then called up for the payments to be allocated to the proper year which usually took 2 to 5 weeks, however was then told if I called first for the proper reference number on the bank transfer , i did not need to always call to get the funds allocated properly- but still took 2 to 4 weeks.
morpeth is offline  
Old May 6th 2024, 8:33 pm
  #762  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 688
alfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by morpeth
In a similar situation at first I just paid the amounts, then called up for the payments to be allocated to the proper year which usually took 2 to 5 weeks, however was then told if I called first for the proper reference number on the bank transfer , i did not need to always call to get the funds allocated properly- but still took 2 to 4 weeks.
ah good to know.

What reference number did they say you need to add to indicate a specific year?

Were you overseas all those years? Why have they applied class 2 to only certain years? I was overseas and my situation never changed so confused about their calculations which took 11 months
Thanks

Last edited by alfista1; May 6th 2024 at 8:43 pm.
alfista1 is offline  
Old May 6th 2024, 9:14 pm
  #763  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 688
alfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Originally Posted by alfista1
I have finally received my class 2 response and can now pay class 2.
The form shows I can pay the lower rate for only certain years - 2008/2011-2013 only at 163.80 GBP and this past year 179.40 GBP onwards
Why have I just got selected years at the lower rate and others at the full class3 does anyone know?

Also I want to pay by bank transfer. They give their bank details but not anyway to specify which years you are paying for.
How do I pay for specific years like just 2008, 2011-2013 at the lower class 2 rate?
I'm 48 btw



Thanks


If I pay by bank transfer jsut 163.80 GBP will they apply it to one of those years? Then another transfer of 163.80 until all those have been credited?
There is one for 800.80 (2021) - If I send in that exact amount they'll cross of 2021?
Not clear at all. Should be able to specify on the transfer reference the year in addition
Online forecast:
Also do not know if its worth paying for all of those higher priced years.
I have 10 years paid now - If I add those 4 years at class 2 that brings me up to 14.
Then 18 years of work from now, 48, to 2042 should bring me up to 32 years of NIC. Short of 3 years for the full pension.


Last edited by alfista1; May 6th 2024 at 9:45 pm.
alfista1 is offline  
Old May 6th 2024, 9:56 pm
  #764  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 688
alfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond reputealfista1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Why is the HMRC NIC sort code different on their website Pay Class 2 National Insurance if you do not pay through Self Assessment: Make an online or telephone bank transfer - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
to what I have on my letter?
One is below and on the letter 20-20-48 with a different account number ending in 793
My Barclays list it as an official payee - HMRC NIC DEFICIENCY PAYMENT NEWCASTLE (08-32-20) as below. The one on the letter does not appear as verified!
Letter took a month to arrive so maybe their website account details are more up to date?

UPDATE: 'HMRC NICO RECEIPTS' with 20-20-48 worked - Verified with HMRC from Barclays.
Just paid for 2023 .

Paying from a UK bank account

You can pay HMRC by Faster Payments, CHAPS or Bacs, using the following details:
  • sort code - 08 32 20
  • account number - 12001004
  • account name - HMRC NIC Receipts


Last edited by alfista1; May 6th 2024 at 10:33 pm.
alfista1 is offline  
Old May 6th 2024, 10:12 pm
  #765  
Furby
 
Glasgow Girl's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Location: St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 882
Glasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond reputeGlasgow Girl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Class 2 NI. What about us poor expats paying voluntary contributions?

Each additional year of NI contributions will provide an extra £6.32 per week, or £328.64 per year for every year that you collect. At a cost of £824.20 for Class 3 you would only have to collect for just over 2.5 years before you are better off doing so. So, yes it is most definitely worthwhile to contribute as many years as necessary to max out the state pension. The cost of NI contributions must have lagged behind the increase in the state pension because the payback period used to be about 3.5 years.

From the numbers on your statement you only need to backfill up to 5 additional years if you continue to contribute up to 2042 (£221.20-£191.69)/£6.21 so just one year at Class 3 rates.

Last edited by Glasgow Girl; May 6th 2024 at 10:17 pm.
Glasgow Girl is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.