Domino

as you say, these phrases are new to the UK, coming from the Indian sub-continent, along with a desire to impose Sharia law.
however, it isnt very recent and has been with us for well over 10 years.
regrettably it has been kept below the line because of the problem that if it is raised as a subject anyone not part of "the brotherhood" is deemed to be racist and cannot have a say in such matters.

The men go to great lengths to ensure the "purity" of their women, local streets are jammed packed full of cars delivering and collecting them from school every day, even for fairly short distances. This ensures they do not mix with anyone "not acceptable"

The other women in the household have no option, no say, profess no knowledge, they were brought up the same way and passed as a chattel to a man, usually many years older, to cement a relationship between families.
There are several young women who have moved hundreds of miles from home to live\marry with someone "not acceptable" to their father or uncle, under a relocation programme.

It is a very different world to that you see and expect from a normal English way of life, and despite the long years of Spain's association with muslim religion, is probably new to you as well.

The television detective series Blue Murder with Caroline Quentin had an episode that covered the surface of this subject.

Domino

Evamar, you have summed the problem up in only 7 words .

The problem with the UK and integration is that it is continually being said that the indigenous British are not integrating and they are racist. But as you say it is the immigrants who are not integrating. They want to retain their way of life from another land whilst accepting, no - Demanding, the benefits available to the indigenous peoples.

They impose Sharia Law in their communities, bypassing the British law system. They impose forced marriage on their children - male and female, to cement relationships between families.

Integration isnt something that will happen overnite, or on 31st Dec by decree.... It can only come over a period of time measured in centuries, not days weeks or even years.
Integration means the indigenous peoples have to open their doors to new ideas, new ways of life - in exactly the same way as the incomers have to relax some of their rigid ways of life, accepting those of the indigenous they are joining.
Integration can only come from trust, understanding and most importantly acceptance of little bits of difference. From that should come a stronger and more resiliant population.

Lionda

Very good post, karma given. I have an Asian (Pakistan) friend who was such a good friend to me when we moved to live a couple doors down from her family. I was recovering from a serious operation at the time and she sent her children in every day to see if I needed anything and sent food also. When I was well enough to visit we became friends and I helped her with the language in turn she taught me some basic cooking skills from her own country. However she wouldn't walk down the street with me because, as she explained to me, it was not acceptable for her to be seen with an English woman This was early 80's. I had no problem whatsoever and even took her out in the car a few times to appointments and dropping her and her children off at the shops. That apparently was OK. We lost touch for many years when I moved away from the area but bumped into each other in Asda when I moved back home from Spain and she hugged me .... yes in public!! How different from when we first got to know each other. I have moved away again but we remain friends.

gruffbrown

Do they walk around seeing how long they can hold their breath? That must stiffle conversation.

evamar

Precisely, that is the problem. Of course it's human nature, and because of that there should be more control in order to avoid ghettoes. Now take an allocated area where you still have a few native families surrounded by many others of a single particular foreign background. Especially an area where most natives are poor and unemployed and most foreigners are also poor, unemployed and mainly illegals.

Now find yourself as the minority in a bus and surrounded by one single other group. Good or bad, you feel insecure because you are the minority in your own country. Everybody realises it, be honest, but many won't say it publicly: PC stigma. I don't know whether this woman is crazy, had recently been attacked and robbed by immigrants or their descendants, recently lost her job, or what.

I don't know why she said it loud, but being honest I do certainly notice when I'm the only Spanish in a Spanish place or the only white in a bus or tram in the UK, and this being immigrant myself. It shocks me because rather than integrate, people only looks for the familiar even though it normally means that the area degrades.

If I were the only British on a bus, and of course talking out of peak hours, I would prefer being one of several British, surrounded by several blacks, asians, europeans and whatever, but not surrounded by only one other group or two. Of course you want the familiar, that's precisely why immigrants shouldn't take whole parts of the country as their own.

I once met at work a Bangladeshi man, about 50 years old, who had been in the UK for over 20 years and still couldn't speak basic English and couldn't even fill in a form with simple questions such as name, address... It shocked me, he had only been in contact with his own group all that time and came with a friend to translate. I don't want this to be something "normal" in the UK, in Spain or wherever.

Immigrants have to integrate. OK to be close to a few more families of your own background, but they cannot take the whole place as a ghetto, as this helps them to keep their own culture, language and customs untouched and unaffected by the host one. This is the reason of the infamous "honour killings" among other social issues: bad integration. If you live abroad, you have to change many things and adapt to the host culture, which simply has to remain the strongest. If you are not going to adapt, you simply shouldn't live abroad.

LIONDA, what a nice story, it shows that good people are good everywhere and don't have to stop being so only because of the background of the others. Your friend made a big step then to integrate, knowing that it wasn't accepted by her own people, she was breaking her own culture ties. This is the kind of immigrants that will always be welcomed everywhere. I'm glad that you keep in touch.

Lionda

LIONDA, what a nice story, it shows that good people are good everywhere and don't have to stop being so only because of the background of the others. Your friend made a big step then to integrate, knowing that it wasn't accepted by her own people, she was breaking her own culture ties. This is the kind of immigrants that will always be welcomed everywhere. I'm glad that you keep in touch.[/QUOTE]

Evamar, my friend is a really nice woman and she has a good sense of humour. Her children are mostly married now except for two who still live at home. She told me one of her sons has married a girl who chooses to wear the full burkha and when she first visited she told her "you don't need to wear that here I want to see your face" she said she doesn't like the burkha and can't understand why some women of her culture choose to wear it, she thinks it separates them from everyone and finds that very sad.

VFR

Dear O Lord

That is the main problem with so many of us Brits, am I racist for thinking these thoughts ?, when its bleeding blindingly obvious that the bulk of mankind is intolerant/dislikes/hates others who are indifferent/dismissive to the indigenous population & their rules. (of course I speak in general terms)

IMO.
The burka should be outlawed in western society (period)
Any case of family members using Sharia law (or whatever excuse they use) to hurt/maim/kill other members should know that they will not see freedom for a very very long time.

HBG

Come on, Chum. It was only a joke, Lighten up.

Dick Dasterdly

Looks like we're in for quite a long wait, jimenato.

rugbymatt

Oh sorry, I forgot, thats what you guys do isn't it? Thats why this is the most friendly forum out there...

HBG

Come on Matt, you're not being fair. Isn't the truth that people have just got pissed off with you. You and Perthbum, your time has passed.

Dick Dasterdly

Seems that way.

Maybe all his facebook friends have forsaken him as well, and all he's got left is boosting his post count by pointless trolling on BE.

Anyway we shall continue to patiently wait for him to name and shame and add substance to his accusations, if the option of doing the decent thing and withdrawing them is beneath his dignity.

rugbymatt

Interesting that its you two that are now trying to push me out since its you two who are constantly cited as the reason so many not only stay away from here but also wont return. You continue your little plan, you wont push me out like you have so many others, no matter what tactics you resort to... even multiple personalities... Eh?

whitelinen

Once again a thread has been hijacked by someone with an axe to grind.

If you want to discuss your paranoia FFS go somewhere else.

rugbymatt

Not my paranoia at all, just observations I have picked up from other peoples opinions. Not a shock you are here now though, well done for popping along love.