JLFS

Good point, you have hit the nail squarely on the head, I absolutely know for certain, that if the "incomers" to Spain, received benefits and jumped the queue for council housing (not that there are any council houses in Spain) the local population would not put the red carpet out.

Most immigrants are welcomed/tolerated if they bring something into the country with them, if they arrive with nowt they do not get the same consideration and respect.
And if they are sucking from the national tit as soon as they arrive, it does not bode well for the taxpayers of the country in question.

Racist? No it is just a fact of life. Has anyone ever wondered if Spain would be so welcoming if they were poor and Morrocan, for example.

megmet

The site won't let me give you karma for this post but it deserves it!

The point you make is valid, but for holding that view many are unjustly labeled racist when in fact they are not.

On my own visits back to England I travel from Manchester to my old home town via taxi, all the drivers are Asian and they say they would love to live in Spain in the sun.
Every single one of them has asked us the same question... "what are the benefits like in Spain", when told there are non they then decide they don't want to move here.
I think that says it all about their mindset!

Domino

what a funny place Spain is, no council housing, no benefits, can't understand why Brits want to come here.......
oh yes its because they get all their long term benefits in the UK and then take them to Spain where they live off the people back home.

seem to remember someone trying to tell me the other day in a thread on Health Benefits that expats shouldnt get the medical assistance they may need because although they have paid in they dont live in the UK anymore - so it must be right for medical tourists to have receive the treatment.

at least Spain is honest and open about it, and there isnt a 2 level NHS system where the Blobs with their brats get all the assistance but the elderly have to have their family come in to feed them and change their clothes.

JLFS

The point you brought up about racism is a very sore point with everyone, form the person hovering and waiting to catch a workmate out for making a "racist" remark, and scoring brownie points for themselves in the work place, to the truly terrified to voice an opinion about immigrants, who seem to be pushed to the front of the queue for freebies.

I am against certain types of immigration, the ones that will bring no benfit to the new country, infact expect unearned benefits from said country.

Any minister of any government who allows this is letting his electorate down, as they are the ones that suffer.

immigration from the poorer counties seems to be growing at an astounding rate, and without being racist, usually the poorer the coutry, the darker the skin of the immigrant.

So what seem like a backlash against different races is infact in many cases more about "moneyism than racism, but it gets masked.

A point being, not many people object if a non EU black footballer signs for a British club. The difference between him and a recent arrival from Somalia without a pot to piddle in, is immense, and all to do with economics, as they both have the same skin colour.

Am I being racist? I dont think so, but there will be some posters who disagree, I think the powers that be in the UK should stop the being offended on behalf of others and say "enough is enough, NO MONEY, NO SKILLS, NO JOB PROSPECTS,? sorry the UK is not for you."

Dick Dasterdly

I really don't understand what point you are trying to make here.

OK, Brits are entitled to move to Spain and live off long term benefits, but in many cases these have been earned.
As I understand it, this is not a special ruling designed only for Brits living in Spain but applies to all Eu citizens regardless of which EU country they choose to live.
OK the UK benefits are more lucrative than most, but thats simply because ppl.have paid more into them and are therefore in most cases are entitled to them.
You make no mention of the vast number of Brits in Spain living mainly off what they have worked damned hard for, for most of their lives and relying very little on benefits.

Spain is open and honest about it
Please explain.
Spain simply has no other choice but to muddle along as it does.
Whose fault is it that they don't have a satisfactory benefit system ?
......or that so many ppl.have worked on the black all their lives and paid no taxes towards such a system or made their own satisfactory provisions for later life ?

JLFS

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, the bit about Spanish folks not making provison for later life, is a bit harsh.

I know people who have worked nbon stop for 40 years, but have only had contracts for about half that time.

They would have loved to "cotizar" more but were unable to do so, because the employers could not feasibly give them full time contracts, due to the high charges involved, and also the "finiquita" of 40 odd days pay for each year worked.

Folk were to busy trying to put food on the table, and keep a roof over their heads, to be able to squirrel nuts away for later.

To make it in Spain, is much harder than in the UK, for a start the self employed SS is a lot more, VAT is due on ALL turnover there is no allowance for low turnover business like in the UK.

Workers have to pay a fortune for their prescriptions, all things that go against being able to provide for ones old age.

I dont know of anyone in the UK that emigrated to Spain because they had to because they could not afford to live.

However loads of Spanish had to emigrate in order to survive, not for a change of climate, to wind down, to enjoy the last years etc.

So talking about "making satisfactory provisions in later lafe" does rankle a bit, especially when I know I am only one genration from being in their postition.

But thanks, and big thanks to the UK, I am not.

Domino

probably because you are reading my comments on their own instead of as a response to a previous post

The uk benefits are probably the best in the eu, why else are so many trying to get in under the radar, with a gentle push down the slope from our "neighbours" who want to get rid of them asap.
I believe I have been consistant - unjustified benefits are unsustainable. Benefits are there for those who cannot help themselves, not those who will not. That is called a caring society. Abuse of that caring society should be stamped on as you would an ant, especially when it is medical tourism which is diverting money and facilities away from those that NEED it.

why should I make mention of something that wasnt relevent to the conversation,

Up front Spain says it has no support for those who don't put in, in fact they have little support for those who do.
Why should you suggest Spain is muddling along - its not the uk, its a different country to the uk, they have their own rules, evolved out of a different history, and stick to them.
In fact what is so good about the uk system, that perpetuates cradle to grave benefits without check.

And working on the black ? Quite a few do that in the uk, so spain isnt unique in that.

All other countries have different systems, so get on with it.

whitelinen

Back to the topic.................

I read that the The tram experience woman was later arrested and remanded in custody until the 6th December ................. why has nobody picked up on this?

evamar

There is a mere economic racism and a straight race/religion one. Both are worrying, but on different degrees. The economic racism tends to raise in bad economic situations such as this one, but the later is there all the time.

I don't think that in general (there will always be exceptions) people are truly racist, but the economic racism is spreading quickly, in the UK, in Spain and in many countries. I have many Spanish friends with kids who are angry that the kids of immigrants get most of the help for books and lunch, and they are mixed in the classes without proper Spanish, even though their parents have been living in Spain for a while, so they delay the learning of the other kids. For what they say this happens particularly with regards to the daughters of Muslim immigrants, whilst their sons are more integrated as they have more freedom.

We are also getting too many illegal immigrants in Spain, mainly from Africa, but also from America. In my honest opinion, any illegal in any country simply has no rights, he/she is not supposed to be in the country and cannot claim the same rights obtained by the natives. They depend on the abuse of exploiters or the kindness of generous people, but no proper rights. For many the only option is crime, which is the main cause of racism.

And if they don't agree to live without rights and being exploited, they shouldn't emigrate and should instead fight for their own rights in their native countries. Or at least try to, so they will truly be asylum seekers, and cannot be treated as economic emigration. Very few countries are really poor, not producing enough wealth for their population; the real problem is the terrible distribution of wealth and their subsistence society, and that is what needs to change, starting with many social and religious ideas which cannot keep them alive. We did it.

My great-grandmother had some 12 kids, 5 died and many others emigrated because they were simply starving, and countries were in need of foreign workers so they were welcomed; my grandmother had 8 children and 4 died, we were suffering an international boycott and anybody in Europe helped the suffering population, people were actually starving and again emigration was common; my mother was working since she was 12, had 2 children, both are alive, we were well fed, with University degrees and well travelled; I decided to have none while I was young and later discovered that I couldn't, but that's another story. I had several friends at school with 10-15 brothers and sisters! Now they have only 2-3 of their own. This means a huge social change that is also needed in the poorest countries. Let's remember that normally immigrants have extended families, so the need of putting limits and enforcing proper integration is quite obvious.

My mother spent most of her youth running in front of the grises and went to prison several times. She couldn't avoid being fired simply because she got married, a woman's place was really the kitchen and the delivery room; there were lots of laws and customs that had to change. Spanish society changed incredibly in less than 10 years to catch up with what was "normal" in Western Europe, and my parents' generation made the change. I was too young then and only benefited from their advances, but I did see what was happening. This current generation has grown in freedom and don't realise how things used to be.

What I find extremely insulting is that there have been many amnesties in Spain, so the very same document that the Police gave the illegals with a date of detention, was used to prove that they had been in the country for the number of years required to get the amnesty. Stupid or what??? On a completely different position are the asylum seekers, of course.

I remember when I was still at school, maybe 25 years ago. We got some students from other races and it was really pathetic to see both teachers and pupils running to befriend them and make sure that nobody could call them racists. That was a positive racism but still racism. In my case, I thought that one of them was not only stupid but a complete and proper b****, so I made clear that I didn't like her. And you guessed right, some stupids called me a racist.

Am I a racist? I have close friends from other races and religions, so I personally don't see me as a truly racist. Am I an economic racist? I think I might be. Surely some would call me that, but I simply dislike opportunists from any background, and think that the native culture should be kept the stronger and all the foreigners should adapt. Whatever the native culture is, whatever the foreigns are, even legal immigrants. I also think that everybody should do what they can in order to change things for the best in their own countries, rather than simply escaping and entering illegally into another country that doesn't need them and then cry for the rights of the native people.

jackytoo

She should have done something really serious like bashing a grannie on the head for her money. he would be free to walk the streets now. Totally over the top.

No-one has picked up on it because they are of on one of their generalising the natives thread

Domino

no one would have picked up on anything if someone hadn't video'd and put it onto the web.

trial by net, punished by fluffy bunnies sucking up to positive racism.

rgds

cricketman

I had to comeback to react to a post like this

What the woman did was horrendous, not only what she said, but she was also clearly drugged or drunk and had a young child on her knee

If I didnt think she was mentally ill I'd recommend a 100 hours community service cleaning out the toilets at asylum detention centres

That anyone can defend her, also shows the kind of morally corrupt person they are

jackytoo

Well at least you have come back as "yourself" and not under another name Better the devil you know......

Dick Dasterdly

Welcome back C'man.
I don't see that anyone has actually defended her.
The only thing in question is the seriousness of the alleged offence.
The range of views with regard to this is not really surprising IMHO.

JLFS

I wonder about the sad ass that posted the clip on youtube.

What was their motive, if it was to right a wrong surely they recording could be shown to the police, and they could post a still of the woman to catch her, or called a guard, posting a clip on the net for billions to see is not exactly being a concerned citizen.

I think it was more to satisfy themselves and their own ego as a "whistle blower".