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The perfect Mother

The perfect Mother

Old Nov 30th 2011, 6:32 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by jdr
Perhaps she read the letter the asylum seekers got regarding how much their gas and electric credit cards were for over Christmas.
What's this about, I must have missed this story
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Old Nov 30th 2011, 7:36 pm
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by jackytoo
That's a good point, I did wonder if something bad had happened and she went off on a rant but the person who did the recording only showed the one side. I am not condoning it but there could have been a reason she lost it.
To be fair, if something started kicking off you'd have to be pretty lucky to catch the whole thing on your mobile; I'm guessing something started up, the person with the phone was close to the woman, saw it getting worse and then started videoing. Doubt there's any more reason than that for the one-sided nature of the coverage.
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Old Nov 30th 2011, 8:47 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by evamar
It happened on a tram in Croydon... no surprise really, it's an area full of ill integrated immigrants and very poor British families... For each legal tax paying working person you get 15 illegal or unemployed or criminal people... Black, white, asian or whatever, some people are fine and most are not, it's simply a bad area. Pity because there are plenty of nice period houses and it's very well connected to London, but problem is most of the people living there. I think that the immigration office is based there, so you get all the fresh immigrants as soon as they come to the UK and all the problems this brings.

South Croydon not so bad, but East and West particularly...

I myself will always be considered a second class person by many British people, so will most foreigners. I have seen this, but so far not so clearly expressed. This time she was concentrating in black and Polish people, but quite clearly, in her opinion any immigrant should go back to their own country. Many people think like her. And fortunately many more don't, but they don't tend to have close foreigner friends in the UK either.

We'll see about the charges, she's got kids so I guess a fine will do this time.
some very good points about the reality, and how "local" people are affected.

Originally Posted by fionamw
I remain stoically convinced your perceptions are slightly, hopefully very, wrong and that the majority of people are if not openly welcoming then at least not as discriminatory as you feel.
As for the kids - well even if you totally and completely disregard the racism, etc etc., the woman could do with parenting classes ref F-ing and blinding in front of her poor little toddler. And she seemed fine with it
I think that the days of welcoming incomers to the UK are long gone.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 2:07 am
  #19  
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by JLFS
some very good points about the reality, and how "local" people are affected.

I think that the days of welcoming incomers to the UK are long gone.
And I think your correct!

Depending of course on which part of the country you are in, areas with large immigrant populations are less welcoming than those without.... Synonymous of Spain perhaps?
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 2:21 am
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by JLFS
some very good points about the reality, and how "local" people are affected.



I think that the days of welcoming incomers to the UK are long gone
.
In the UK I live in an area that has always been racially mixed (white, black and Indiian/Pakistan in roughly equal amounts). It has always been like this since we first moved ther in 1976 and everyone has always got along fine.

I'm afraid the latest wave of immigrants, mainly Belarussian or other eastern Europenas, are not always made as welcome as perhaps they should be (although I hope I personally have not been unwelcoming to anyone). Also there are far more 'chav' white families than there used to be, following the sale of many of the houses to buy-to-let investors.

When you see your area being downgraded by the actions of certain residents it is sometimes hard to stick a smile on your face and be welcoming, wromg as that may be.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 7:49 am
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

QUOTE=megmet;9763662]And I think your correct!

Depending of course on which part of the country you are in, areas with large immigrant populations are less welcoming than those without.... Synonymous of Spain perhaps?
I was looking for a nights bed and breakfast in Dover some years back (about 15yrs) while I waited for my next day ferry, and it was not an easy task. I was told most b n b's were full with Asylum seekers, I eventually found a place, but walking in the town to get something to eat in the evening was awful, there were gangs of them almost every which way you looked. Not being used to seeing crowds of young foreigners hanging out on street corners, I found it very intimidating, and I didn't like it. I can imagine that living in such a place over run might not be so nice for the locals, especially if they also see crime increase. I guess it would be the same if they were gangs of Brits really but in a such small place like Dover with such a lot of them suddenly flooding the place, I can imagine how some might feel. It's very easy for us who don't live with it everyday to understand how some might feel.

Last edited by anonimouse; Dec 1st 2011 at 8:17 am.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 7:50 am
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by megmet
And I think your correct!

Depending of course on which part of the country you are in, areas with large immigrant populations are less welcoming than those without.... Synonymous of Spain perhaps?
Its funny you should say that, because quite recently on TV I have seen long standing immigrant communities, saying that immigration is out of control and they are a drain on local services, and the gove should not be letting them anymore in.

I know an Asian guy who is against bringing in future wives/husbands to the UK, as there a so many in the UK now, why should they have to import partners for what are British born and bred people in many cases.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 12:47 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

FIONAMW, I think that you took my first comments as a generality in the UK when they referred particularly to Croydon. I have worked there for 3 years, and it is simply a bad area, just as many others in London and in the UK. It's what many people would call a s***hole. I would be very scared if left alone in West Croydon by night or even by day and far from the station. I said "some are fine and most are not" referring to the people living in that particular area, whatever their nationality, race, religion... it is a bad area, and unfortunately most people there are conflictive, which is precisely what makes the area a bad one.

With regards to your other redding, I do think that many British people are discriminatory and sometimes straight racists, particularly regarding the immigration from the last 10 years, although many would not be open about their real feelings. I'm not saying everybody is like that, most are not, but unfortunately many are.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 12:49 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

As other opinions here, I don't think that in general British people welcome foreigners with open arms. I especially mean first generation immigrants, still with their own customs and languages, as this is more noticeable with non English speakers. For many British, the descendants of these foreigners will still be foreigners, even if they speak perfect English. When we were talking of a few immigrants in a small town 30 years ago, what was something "interesting" and an "anecdote", quickly changes into something else when you see hundreds, thousands and millions of foreigners, many of them not even interested in integrating with the native society.

I'm not talking about all the immigrants brought by the British government itself in the 60's for specific jobs such as bus drivers, metro, cleaning, etc, as they come because they were wanted, but maybe their families and descendants are not in these times? It cannot be denied that more and more new people keeping their own cultural identity will always create conflict if they do not integrate properly and end up forming ghettoes. The British, particularly the lower class, will always blame the foreigners who took the lowest jobs and this is the first step against all foreigners. Your lower class should have taken the low jobs left after the closure of much of your industry, but they were already taken. The job culture and wish for improving one's life conditions has completely broken in the UK and degenerated into social garbage, British and foreigner.

As per this so much talked "cosmopolitan society", I cannot see why it is the job of the native British society to make the effort to learn hundreds of cultures, when precisely the only common ground that they share is to live in the UK, which should be the culture of reference and the stronger. Halal food in state schools? No need, just take a vegetarian option and don't touch the meat. Wishing "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Xmas"??? Why, I found it nice when a Jewish colleague wished us "Happy Hanukkah". Religion shouldn't be a real problem if they all, including the luck of it, are respected. Cultural differences are more difficult, I think that the only real thing out of issues by all British people is the foreign food, so that they can get their take-aways and their kebabs after the pub. SOmething small like a simple ethnic clothing can bring tensions, and for me it's something that simply should be left behind.

As an immigrant myself, I have left many cultural idiosyncrasies behind, I understand that it is me who has to make the effort, so I perfectly understand the problems that a bad immigration policy can cause to the country. I can see that there is an economic racism which will grow even more in these times of crisis, but also a true colour/religion racism immersed in the UK and especially in England. Not by everybody, but by many.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 12:58 pm
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by evamar
FIONAMW, I think that you took my first comments as a generality in the UK when they referred particularly to Croydon. I have worked there for 3 years, and it is simply a bad area, just as many others in London and in the UK. It's what many people would call a s***hole. I would be very scared if left alone in West Croydon by night or even by day and far from the station. I said "some are fine and most are not" referring to the people living in that particular area, whatever their nationality, race, religion... it is a bad area, and unfortunately most people there are conflictive, which is precisely what makes the area a bad one.

With regards to your other redding, I do think that many British people are discriminatory and sometimes straight racists, particularly regarding the immigration from the last 10 years, although many would not be open about their real feelings. I'm not saying everybody is like that, most are not, but unfortunately many are.
Totally fair on both counts.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 3:47 pm
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by evamar

As an immigrant myself, I have left many cultural idiosyncrasies behind, I understand that it is me who has to make the effort, so I perfectly understand the problems that a bad immigration policy can cause to the country. I can see that there is an economic racism which will grow even more in these times of crisis, but also a true colour/religion racism immersed in the UK and especially in England. Not by everybody, but by many.
Why is it especially true of the UK All countries in Europe have a large immigrant population, thanks to stupid policies coming out of Brussels. Spain has a large immigrant population too and a much larger unemployment rate...and there has been a lot of race riots in various parts of the country during the last decade.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 3:58 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

The laws on human rights are very good it is the the interpretation of these laws and the ability of lawyers to make a lot of money out of them that is incorrect. What many people do not realise is that the HR laws are mainly based on the old English laws dating back for centuries, a little of the American Bill of Rights and some of the French laws. Other countries do not seem to have the problems that the UK has but then their, politicians seem to have a bit of backbone.

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Old Dec 1st 2011, 5:04 pm
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Why is it especially true of the UK All countries in Europe have a large immigrant population, thanks to stupid policies coming out of Brussels. Spain has a large immigrant population too and a much larger unemployment rate...and there has been a lot of race riots in various parts of the country during the last decade.
Very true.
There are varying degrees of discontent regarding immigration in many EU countries, however the UK media rarely takes the trouble to focus on the broader issue.
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Old Dec 1st 2011, 9:43 pm
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

As, along with the rest of us an immigrant myself, I feel that I am lucky not to have been confronted by the Spanish equivalent of that female.

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Old Dec 1st 2011, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: The perfect Mother

Originally Posted by The Oddities
As, along with the rest of us an immigrant myself, I feel that I am lucky not to have been confronted by the Spanish equivalent of that female.

Graham
No great surprise that the Spanish generally don't bite the hand that helps feed them.

Now consider an alternative senario whereby many of us were living of a Spanish benefit system funded mostly from Spanish pockets, thats of course if they even had one to match that in the UK.

I don't attempt justify the incident in any way, but merely point out that you are comparing apples with pears.
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