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Is this heating/cooling system for real

Is this heating/cooling system for real

Old Sep 16th 2009, 11:30 am
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by danny26
Hey guys, has anybody info on CALFRI factory address & office phone numbers? All they have on website is mobile phone number.
Mmmmm, I wonder why. ;-))
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Old Sep 16th 2009, 12:07 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by carter71
Take a typical 100m2 2 bed single story Spanish villa of recent construction, assume it's a 10m x 10m square, with 3m high walls.

100mm concrete has a thermal coefficient of 4 W/m2K. Assuming the house is built directly onto the earth, we can also assume a thermal coefficient of 0.7W/m2K for the floor. Negating the effects of windows, drafts, and steel doors, we can therefore calculate the minimum heat loss as a function delta-T:
This sounds like you're assuming the house has no insulation - apart from the insulation effects of the concrete in the walls and ceiling - is that correct?
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Old Sep 16th 2009, 4:55 pm
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by pete_l
This sounds like you're assuming the house has no insulation - apart from the insulation effects of the concrete in the walls and ceiling - is that correct?
Have lived in many Spanish homes old and new. None had insulation!
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Old Oct 19th 2009, 3:33 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by 1debbie2
interesting this, seen threads on this on another forum, started off by someone who has a franchise, they called the thread the death of a/c and really slagged off how bad a/c was. i do not see how this works without alot of condensation causing damp problems when cooling.
I dont blalme them for slagging it off...I absolutely hate air-con.

Anything that offers an alternative has got to be worth looking at!
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 6:32 am
  #65  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by perper
I dont blalme them for slagging it off...I absolutely hate air-con.

Anything that offers an alternative has got to be worth looking at!
So apart from the fact that air-con is the cheapest most efficient form of heating available, what is it you don't like about it?

Actually, there are plenty of alternatives, according to the TV last night there are Government grants available if you go low carbon like biomass.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 6:41 am
  #66  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by carter71
low carbon like biomass.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 7:48 am
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by carter71
So apart from the fact that air-con is the cheapest most efficient form of heating available, what is it you don't like about it?

Actually, there are plenty of alternatives, according to the TV last night there are Government grants available if you go low carbon like biomass.
Have you ever sat in a restaraunt and had the damn thing blowing down the back of your neck?
Felt dried out after youv'e been in its presence for too long?
Sat in an office with air con and seen one person go down with a cold and watched as everyone else followed in double time?
Or seen the ugly dripping tin box shoved on the side of a beautiful building?
Efficient?..the moment..no the milli second you turn it off the temperature in the room rises..so on it goes again.
The cheapest form of heating?...RUBBISH...you want to see my energy bill!

Since you seem to have been judge and jury on this Calfri thing without actually ever having experienced it...I don't expect you to be open minded...small minded yes!
If it actually does perform the way it is supposed to, it would blow air-con(excuse the pun) clear out of the water in terms of efficiency and economy so I for one will be looking into it further rather than make inane sweeping statements about something I know absolutely nothing about yet.
As for the guy who put it all together..Iv'e looked into him..he is quite a prolific and very successful inventor and business man who concentrates on producing things for mainly eco friendly reasons. He has been featured on the BBC and in the press and his toothbrush was not just a toothbrush....it has been taken on by none other than the British Military because it is a simple but brilliant way of stopping cross contamination between the toothbrush and the tube of paste.
Stopping your troops going down one by one when out in the field is a bit of a priority by all accounts.
His solar light benches are made of completely recycled materials and have been purchased to the tune of 10'000 pieces by the worlds biggest retailer, Wallmart as well as Tesco in the UK. The council of Majorca have recently taken delivery of a huge shipment to the island also. Somehow Im guessing that none of the aforementioned organisations are total mugs and Im also guessing that they dont listen to the voices on here.
Hey..did you know man landed on the moon yet?....and guess what, that thing that was the size of a car battery years ago that allowed you to make phone calls from anywhere is now the size of a credit card!
And what about the micro chip?...did you see the size of computers in the 60's and 70's..you know the ones that originally filled an entire room!...well now the components are so small you almost need a microscope to assemble them.
If forums were around way back when...one thing is for sure...you lot would have been on there shaking your heads and screaming "poppy cock" to any mention of the idea!
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 8:03 am
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Thumbs up Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by perper
If it actually does perform the way it is supposed to, it would blow air-con(excuse the pun) clear out of the water in terms of efficiency and economy
That was quite funny
I agree with you, as you can see I've been wanting to explore this more by my other posts.

Keep us posted
DSB.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 8:38 am
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB
That was quite funny
I agree with you, as you can see I've been wanting to explore this more by my other posts.

Keep us posted
DSB.
I will indeed DSB!....So far I have to say I'm very interested.
The chap who put it all together seems a thoroughly decent bloke, well regarded in his chosen field and extremely successful to boot!
I have even found out that he has some sort of personal association with James Dyson the bagless vacum inventor...perhaps they just move in the same cirlcles!...oops theres a pun for the the new Dyson 'ball' vacum!
Anyway..he ain't no mug! and I love the concept of the system...

Bye for now.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 9:25 am
  #70  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by perper
Have you ever sat in a restaraunt and had the damn thing blowing down the back of your neck?
No. And if I did I'd, er, move seats?
Originally Posted by perper
Felt dried out after youv'e been in its presence for too long?
No
Originally Posted by perper
Sat in an office with air con and seen one person go down with a cold and watched as everyone else followed in double time?
No. Maybe they're not monitoring the RH?
Originally Posted by perper
Or seen the ugly dripping tin box shoved on the side of a beautiful building?
Yes. I never know why they do that, they're easy enough to hide.
[QUOTE=perper;8029877
Efficient?..the moment..no the milli second you turn it off the temperature in the room rises..so on it goes again.[/QUOTE]
Only if you don't insulate your home!
Originally Posted by perper
The cheapest form of heating?...RUBBISH...you want to see my energy bill!
No, actually it is. The Calfri system is only 100% efficient when it comes to heating, but that's the thermal efficiency in converting electrical energy to heat the water. The problem comes in the transfer of that thermal energy around the house. No wet heating system is 100% efficient because some heat will be lost from the pipework and some of that won't be heating your home. Contrast with air conditioning which is 300-500% efficient on the same measure (electricity in, thermal energy out on the hot side of the heat pump).
Originally Posted by perper
Since you seem to have been judge and jury on this Calfri thing without actually ever having experienced it...I don't expect you to be open minded...small minded yes!
I'm only going on the information provided on the Calfri website. Maybe that's not correct?
Originally Posted by perper
If it actually does perform the way it is supposed to, it would blow air-con(excuse the pun) clear out of the water in terms of efficiency and economy so I for one will be looking into it further rather than make inane sweeping statements about something I know absolutely nothing about yet.
As I say, thermal efficiency on the Calfri website is a fraction of the thermal efficiency of a heat-pump based heating system. Nor does it attract grants from the Spanish Government as other systems do. All of these things need to be bourne in mind I guess.
Originally Posted by perper
As for the guy who put it all together..Iv'e looked into him..he is quite a prolific and very successful inventor and business man who concentrates on producing things for mainly eco friendly reasons. He has been featured on the BBC and in the press and his toothbrush was not just a toothbrush....it has been taken on by none other than the British Military because it is a simple but brilliant way of stopping cross contamination between the toothbrush and the tube of paste.
Stopping your troops going down one by one when out in the field is a bit of a priority by all accounts.
His solar light benches are made of completely recycled materials and have been purchased to the tune of 10'000 pieces by the worlds biggest retailer, Wallmart as well as Tesco in the UK. The council of Majorca have recently taken delivery of a huge shipment to the island also. Somehow Im guessing that none of the aforementioned organisations are total mugs and Im also guessing that they dont listen to the voices on here.
Hey..did you know man landed on the moon yet?....and guess what, that thing that was the size of a car battery years ago that allowed you to make phone calls from anywhere is now the size of a credit card!
And what about the micro chip?...did you see the size of computers in the 60's and 70's..you know the ones that originally filled an entire room!...well now the components are so small you almost need a microscope to assemble them.
If forums were around way back when...one thing is for sure...you lot would have been on there shaking your heads and screaming "poppy cock" to any mention of the idea!
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything?

Still, you'll be pleased to know however that I hold two physical science degrees and was personally involved in the development of at least two of the things you mention in the above paragraphs!

Not bad for a small-minded woman, eh?

If you want to provide me with the science and the mathematics behind the system, I'll take a look at it. I like equations.

PS - how is Javea at this time of the year
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 9:44 am
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by Fred James
There are also some interesting claims on the website :-

"This has ice cold R134A refrigerant (safe and environment friendly) pumped inside it. This in turn cools the water to an amazing -5ÂșC if required. BBrrrr That is cold..."
.
R134a does not work efficiently in large systems.Without large piping and heat exchangers its useless.Which is why you wont get water dripping from the rads, it`ll never cool them enough.

Its mainly found in the Automotive industry and domestically its used in household fridges/freezers.

Commercial systems use more effective, but more costly Refrigerants.

R134a refrigerant has a poor record and is also being assesed by the EU, as its a contributor to Green House gas.It is now not used in the USA.

Its likely to be phased out soon, in the UK new regs are out with regards its safe handling.

Read the new EU wide F Reulations here,

http://www.fluorocarbons.org/documen...Regulation.pdf

And how bad R134a is here,

http://ecomodder.com/blog/eu-will-ba...coolant-by-20/

All new household appliance refrigeration uses R600 Refrigerant.

R134a was intended to replace the phased out R12 Refrigerant, R134a was found to be just as harmfull to the planet and is expensive compared to other gases outputs.

I wouldn`t purchase any item with R134a as with the old R12, many people had to scrap there units once a fault occured.

Last edited by chulo; Oct 20th 2009 at 10:06 am.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 10:18 am
  #72  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by chulo
R134a refrigerant has a poor record and is also being assesed by the EU, as its a contributor to Green House gas.It is now not used in the USA.
It is being used in the U.S. Nearly every car in the World is running R134a.
Just because the U.S didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol doesn't mean it is not being used..

http://www.neutronicsinc.com/news/re...ch06/Gary.html

//BACK TO TOPIC//

DSB.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 10:46 am
  #73  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by carter71
No. And if I did I'd, er, move seats?

No

No. Maybe they're not monitoring the RH?

Yes. I never know why they do that, they're easy enough to hide.

Only if you don't insulate your home!

No, actually it is. The Calfri system is only 100% efficient when it comes to heating, but that's the thermal efficiency in converting electrical energy to heat the water. The problem comes in the transfer of that thermal energy around the house. No wet heating system is 100% efficient because some heat will be lost from the pipework and some of that won't be heating your home. Contrast with air conditioning which is 300-500% efficient on the same measure (electricity in, thermal energy out on the hot side of the heat pump).

I'm only going on the information provided on the Calfri website. Maybe that's not correct?

As I say, thermal efficiency on the Calfri website is a fraction of the thermal efficiency of a heat-pump based heating system. Nor does it attract grants from the Spanish Government as other systems do. All of these things need to be bourne in mind I guess.


I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything?

Still, you'll be pleased to know however that I hold two physical science degrees and was personally involved in the development of at least two of the things you mention in the above paragraphs!

Not bad for a small-minded woman, eh?

If you want to provide me with the science and the mathematics behind the system, I'll take a look at it. I like equations.

PS - how is Javea at this time of the year
Only if dont insulate your home?
Wasn't it you that said in an earlier post "Have lived in many Spanish homes old and new. None had insulation!"

As for moving seats...not always possible in a busy restaraunt...you probably eat in Macdonalds though so no problem there eh.

If the tin boxes were easy enough to hide they would since its one of the customers biggest objections...your speaking like a true academic...ie;not in the real world.

woopeedoo...you have a couple of letters after your name..I wont write what I think they are...clearly you like shoving them down peoples throats..who else but an egotistical boring big head would write all those ridiculous equations on here for everyone to see and thoroughly yawn about.
With all those wonderful qualifications..I would have thought you should know better than get involved in tittle tattle

So yes actually...very small minded indeed!

As for "how is Javea"???...er..Im sure its lovely at this time of year..personally I prefer the weather here on the costa de la Luz

How is the weather with you up there?...down here on planet earth its really quite pleasent
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB
It is being used in the U.S. Nearly every car in the World is running R134a.
Just because the U.S didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol doesn't mean it is not being used..

http://www.neutronicsinc.com/news/re...ch06/Gary.html

//BACK TO TOPIC//

DSB.
My fault it is the Europeans phasing out R134a in 2011 in automotive air con units.The USA are designing more efficient systems, rather there struggling to design them.

This one is more updated than your 2006 article, at the bottom you can read the signed proposal dated the 13th October 2009 accepting the EPA's proposal that says HFO-1234yf is an acceptable substitute.

Full article here,

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/index.html

http://www.aa1car.com/library/newac2k.htm

Still makes R134a rubbish.

Especially in cheap over priced Eastern European systems.

Last edited by chulo; Oct 20th 2009 at 11:05 am.
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Old Oct 20th 2009, 11:04 am
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by chulo
My fault it is the Europeans phasing out R134a in 2011 in automotive air con units.The USA are designing more efficient systems, rather there struggling to design them.

Still makes R134a rubbish.

Especially in cheap over priced Eastern European systems.
Yes of course because nothing that comes out of the USA or the UK come to that is cheap or over priced eh?
And the fact that the mother of all cheap things is the Far East..you know where just about everything in the UK is manufactured.
I hardly think R134a is rubbish...bit of a simple statement that one

When something better comes along everyone will make the transition...yes even the eastern europeans

Mountains and mole hills here me thinks
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