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Is this heating/cooling system for real

Is this heating/cooling system for real

Old Sep 3rd 2009, 3:19 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Can this system be run from a modest solar pv installation I wonder?
Can't find any info on how many watts the system uses.
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Old Sep 3rd 2009, 6:30 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

The inventor of this system claims it can run from a small solar module.

I did read this but cannot find it again. I did notice though that other products by him are solar based.
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Old Sep 4th 2009, 3:31 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by billgates
Can this system be run from a modest solar pv installation I wonder?
Can't find any info on how many watts the system uses.
I did find some electrical references. If you click around the Spanish dealers site I posted earlier there are some pdf pages, which show electrical details with reference to the heaters etc.

DSB.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 11:16 am
  #34  
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Post Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB
Ok - The person running the Spanish Companies Division has emailed me back.
He has seen the questions raised in this post and will be chiming in with us over the next few days..

:PASTE:
Many thanks for your email.

I have read with interest the comments posted on the site, many of which are a little off track. I will make a response to you over the next day or two in order to give other members a chance to show their interest.

I am pleased that our product has caused such interest and debate.
:END PASTE:

We shall see..
DSB.
Ok - I've had another reply from the person running the Mercia Branch, his name is Roger. I will paste his email body below for all to read / respond / love or hate.

:PASTE:
Sorry for the delay in answering. It's been a very busy week for us,
particularly for me as I my son, his partner and our grandson have now
joined us for 2 weeks holiday.

First let me cover a few of the points covered on the forum. Also lose a few
myths.

Every household runs there heating at different times of the day, for
different lengths of time.. We all get up at different times and go to bed
at different times. So all systems will run for varying amounts of time.
Therefore running cost will vary.

I think it is true that when we think of running central heating we refer to
our experiences in the UK on how long we run the system. This will differ
here in Spain as the climate is milder. That's why we are here. So with
this in mind the sun contributes to the heating in the building. The person
who suggests that the system will be run flat out for 24/7 31 days per month
must have more money than sense and be suffering from hyperthermia.

The Calfri boiler is almost 100% efficient, controls like time clocks to
switch the system on and off. Thermostats to control the individual room
temperatures. So, you have the basis for an economical heating system. Plus
the system starts using a six stage start up when the return temperature
reaches a pre determined temperature the next stage is switched. Finally
the system moves into the economical cruising stage. If you run the system
hard it will cost more than with the proper controls. A car gives the best
economy at 55mph but we have to get there first. Also not everyone is aware
that it is possible to pay as little as .0626 cents per KW hour here in
Spain. Just a thought, does a new low energy light bulb rated a 12 watts
give off the same as the old 60 watt bulb?

So in answer to the question, run the system for 6-7 normal hours a day and
with the help of the sun running costs are as stated. All averages are not
per hour, it's over a period of time, you pick the time, month, 2 months, 6
months or even a year. The cooling cycle compressor is rated at 150 watts.
I am sure someone will work out the running costs on this compared to AC.

It has been suggested that a small AC system will do the same, no, it will
heat one room and the heat will be gone when the system is switched off.
And the fan will blow all the time it's on. That's apart from the noise of
the inverter on the outside. Ever tried to have a conversation near a
working inverter? The Calfri system is almost silent. AC also has to work
harder to heat as the temperature drops outside becoming even less
efficient.

As for condensation. Do we leave the doors and windows open when running
AC, not if we have any sense. It's the same with the Calfri system.
Condensation only occurs when warm air hits a cold surface. The system does
not drop to -5 at startup it is gradual so condensation is at a minimum. We
also use aluminum radiators.

If you combine the features of the Calfri system. Low running costs, heating
and cooling, almost silent running. No toxic fumes. Plus all of the other
benefits found on our website www.calfri-murcia.es I think that its more
than comparable to other options.

Finally. The boiler manufactures have been trading since 1990 and the
guarantee is safe. It is not a franchise, it's an agency and so what if it
was. Would the world stop going to McDonalds, the best known franchise
around. Will all Co-operative shops close over night, I don't think so.

I hope that this answers some of your questions.

Regards
Roger
:END PASTE:

I have asked Roger for some photos and a few more questions. Without running the risk of sounding correct, I suggest anyone who thinks better than - to go to the Site and email him direct.

He has been watching this post.


I'm no expert and rather look silly for five seconds than the rest of my life

DSB.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 11:24 am
  #35  
 
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

I think some input from users of such a system would be more useful that the daydreams of the suppliers.

Unless they have found a way round the basic laws of physics there is no way you can heat/cool a "normal" house on such a low power input.

But then, there are some people who respond to Nigerian scams!
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 11:38 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by Fred James
I think some input from users of such a system would be more useful that the daydreams of the suppliers.

Unless they have found a way round the basic laws of physics there is no way you can heat/cool a "normal" house on such a low power input.

But then, there are some people who respond to Nigerian scams!
As a moderator Fred I don't think it is very fair to put a companies name in a post along with the above statement. I haven't heard of any scams from another Country going through a patten request.

I am a person like you who happen to see the posts heading and jump straight in, yet I have been the only one to contact the company and "look into this". Obviously this subject is of some importance and all of our houses either need cooling and or heating..

I'm in a position sometime soon to have either central heating or *blank* installed, so I contacted the company for some answers. Has anyone else got off the fence ?

Good point on finding out testimonials though - I will pursue this.
As could other people..

(SNIP)

Cheers;
DSB.

Last edited by Mitzyboy; Sep 6th 2009 at 8:26 am. Reason: Email addy removed at posters request
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 11:59 am
  #37  
 
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB
As a moderator Fred I don't think it is very fair to put a companies name in a post along with the above statement. I haven't heard of any scams from another Country going through a patten request. .
I can't see what a patent request for the boiler has got to do with it. Anyone can do that but that is just for the technical side of the issue.

No doubt it is a clever boiler design but a boiler only does one thing - it heats water. This one is said to be efficient but the absolute maximum efficiency is one kw of power input and one kw of heat output - the laws of physics prevent anything better.

Heat pumps are able to exceed this by a factor of as much as 300% because they use an entirely different principle.

The issue here is not whether it will work but whether it is cheaper to run than an equivalent "conventional" system. So far I have seen absolutely no evidence that this is the case.

The quote that electricity is available in Spain for as little as .0626 cents/kw is misleading. The figure does not include tax which adds 21% and it only applies to power used on the "night" tariff which is available until 10pm (11pm in summer).

There are also some interesting claims on the website :-

"This has ice cold R134A refrigerant (safe and environment friendly) pumped inside it. This in turn cools the water to an amazing -5ÂșC if required. BBrrrr That is cold..."

I trust that the prices include antifreeze!

Somehow these claims remind me of those thin super efficient low consumption panel radiators which were heavily advertised a year or so ago.

They may have been efficient but the only reason they used less power was because they were only half as powerful as a normal heater! They were also twice as expensive.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 12:16 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

the sun contributes to the heating in the building.

The cooling cycle compressor is rated at 150 watts.


Me thinks the sun contributes more than 150 watts of heat to my casa in the summer when I need cooling
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 1:04 pm
  #39  
 
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
The cooling cycle compressor is rated at 150 watts.
That's about the same as a decent fridge.

Now here's an alternative idea - buy a fridge, put it in the living room and leave the door open
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 1:11 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB
As a moderator Fred I don't think it is very fair to put a companies name in a post along with the above statement. I haven't heard of any scams from another Country going through a patten request.

I am a person like you who happen to see the posts heading and jump straight in, yet I have been the only one to contact the company and "look into this". Obviously this subject is of some importance and all of our houses either need cooling and or heating..

I'm in a position sometime soon to have either central heating or *blank* installed, so I contacted the company for some answers. Has anyone else got off the fence ?

Good point on finding out testimonials though - I will pursue this.
As could other people..

(SNIP)
Cheers;
DSB.
I was a plumber/Heating engineer for about 40 years and I am with Fred on this, if it was as good as they are saying then no other company would be in business.
Ask him for proof it put 30,000 on the value of the house. lol

Last edited by Mitzyboy; Sep 6th 2009 at 8:27 am. Reason: Email addy removed from quote
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 1:29 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by jdr
I was a plumber/Heating engineer for about 40 years and I am with Fred on this, if it was as good as they are saying then no other company would be in business.
Ask him for proof it put 30,000* on the value of the house. lol
It's fair to say that this system hasn't been around for 40years either.
Just because a new system comes out like this does not for a single second mean that everyone wants to "do away" with A/C and or central heating.

I'm sure the point of this system is for people who are looking into heating possibilities and are finding out that they "maybe" able to do away with A/C systems also..

I'm interested as it "could" be something other than having A/C units hanging on a wall, inside and out - With the addition of possible central heating too boot.
--
If I put X amount into my house I don't expect to always get it back. I wouldn't think for one minute about it putting that much* amount of value into the house. For me it's the running cost and achievable temperature figures I'm trying to narrow down..

All the posts on this subject, for me at least, are circumventing hearsay. I'm digging into it more with a supplier for more answers and testimonials.
Has anyone contacted the companies ? Other than suggesting placing a fridge in a room with a door open..

I thought this was a forum of black, grey and white. Seem's to me all is being done is tittle tattle between each other and not from a person who knows any real facts on THIS system vS A/C and or HEATING.

I would love to know them, which is why I'm following through..
I'm about to step into the market for a decent upgrade you see.

Respectfully;
DSB.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 2:24 pm
  #42  
 
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB

I thought this was a forum of black, grey and white. Seem's to me all is being done is tittle tattle between each other and not from a person who knows any real facts on THIS system vS A/C and or HEATING.
That's not fair comment. JDR has been in the business for years and I thoroughly researched all these options before installing a system in my new house. I also have a pretty good understanding of the First Law of Thermodynamics - try Googling it.

As I said before, there are some really good hybrid systems with electric water heating, heat pump cooling and solar panels as well. The quote for our house was getting close to 20k and the running costs were still high.

I have a friend locally who has just such a system. The pump room looks like something from NASA. It works well, it still costs a lot to run and he is pleased with it.

If you really believe you can get the same sort of system for 25% of that price, just because it has a tiny, not yet patented boiler, some aluminium rads (wow, is that clever) and run it for as much as a single A/C unit then go ahead.

As JDR said, if it was really that good every heating company would be selling it.

And, no, I don't believe in fairies either.

Let us know how well it works when you have it.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 2:32 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by bealerDSB
Ok - Just a thought, does a new low energy light bulb rated a 12 watts give off the same as the old 60 watt bulb?
DSB.
Low energy bulb gives off light and a little heat, 60 watt bulb gives off similar light and a lot more heat so possibly not the best simile.

Jim
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 3:03 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Having read all the comments I'm with DSB on this one.

As I have said before I am not expecting this to be some kind of miracle system but I am grateful for DSB for taking the time and effort to clarify what the system can do in reality. I'm sure no-one would consider buying without seeing a live working system and the bills.

I notice mitzy removed a company name from a post complaining about a removal company due to it being unfair to name them for what seemed like one failure when there could have been a high percentage of jobs where they excelled. Why not give the same treatment here?

Give these people a chance to prove their claims or establish the benefits above other systems. It is surely unfair when their name/location is known to compare them with "nigerian scams".

You could say that every car brochure is a scam what with the mpg claims etc.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: Is this heating/cooling system for real

Originally Posted by campolife
You could say that every car brochure is a scam what with the mpg claims etc.
No, all those claims are officially tested as they now determine things like road tax.

There is not much more to be said on this subject until someone, hopefully the supplier who reads these posts, comes up with some impartial evidence/customer reports to substantiate the economy claims.

As for my comment about Nigerian scams, I was not in any way comparing this offer to a scam. Read what I said. My exact words were:-

"But then, there are some people who respond to Nigerian scams!"

I was merely pointing out that some people are gullible enough to believe such claims without proof - but then some people believe what estate agents tell them.
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