Gibraltar
May 20th 2014, 11:05 pm
#1381
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Re: Gibraltar
I have little faith in posts that do not link the source 
May 20th 2014, 11:19 pm
#1382
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Re: Gibraltar
Very remiss of me.
Here ya go -
"The two foreign ministers should reach a private understanding between each other, differentiating between their actual aim and the methods used to propitiate public opinion on both sides."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/451...os-told-the-UK
Here ya go -
"The two foreign ministers should reach a private understanding between each other, differentiating between their actual aim and the methods used to propitiate public opinion on both sides."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/451...os-told-the-UK
May 21st 2014, 1:12 am
#1383
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Re: Gibraltar
Considering Spain still quotes a 300 year old treaty.
Policy from 30 years ago must be top priority
Policy from 30 years ago must be top priority
May 21st 2014, 8:51 am
#1384
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Gibraltar
it would appear that co-operation between the UK and Spain is not dead
http://thenewsonline.es/news/costa-d...f-malaga-coast
http://thenewsonline.es/news/costa-d...f-malaga-coast
May 21st 2014, 9:26 am
#1386
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Re: Gibraltar
So does Spain celebrating victory over the Moors
May 21st 2014, 9:35 am
#1387
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May 21st 2014, 1:18 pm
#1388
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Re: Gibraltar
Spain said she would increase the checks / QUEUES t the frontier, and she has 
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34012
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34012
May 21st 2014, 1:26 pm
#1389
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Re: Gibraltar
Spain said she would increase the checks / QUEUES t the frontier, and she has
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34012
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34012
Don't they ever complain to him ?
May 21st 2014, 1:36 pm
#1390
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Re: Gibraltar
This has been going on a lot longer than that. I've been in and out of Gibraltar hundreds of times since 2000 and the queues have often been hours. If Spain needed an excuse (they didn't) to make things worse then Gibraltar provided it with the blocks.
May 21st 2014, 4:05 pm
#1391
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Re: Gibraltar
Where do the Gibraltarians get the idea from that they have the right to just breeze across the border into Spain ? If Spain has been lax with its border controls in the past towards Gibraltar, then that is a privilege granted by them and not a right.
These tougher border controls are a direct consequence of the Gibraltar Government's actions in planting the concrete blocks in the disputed waters, as you've said, and if posters wish to inform us of the waiting times at the border, we should also remind them of who the real villain of the piece is.
Even now Picardo is having to back-pedal on his plans for sea-reclamations on the East side of Gibraltar as he concedes he needs permission from Spain for them under EU law concerning the transboundary effect.
http://www.gsdlive.gi/picardo-says-h...g-land-in-bgtw
The delay in dismantling of the sea reef is now just pure stubbornness by Picardo.
Last edited by two tubes of toothpaste; May 21st 2014 at 4:11 pm.
May 21st 2014, 5:00 pm
#1392
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Re: Gibraltar
It took me an hour to get through passport control at Manchester airport last year.
Where do the Gibraltarians get the idea from that they have the right to just breeze across the border into Spain ? If Spain has been lax with its border controls in the past towards Gibraltar, then that is a privilege granted by them and not a right.
These tougher border controls are a direct consequence of the Gibraltar Government's actions in planting the concrete blocks in the disputed waters, as you've said, and if posters wish to inform us of the waiting times at the border, we should also remind them of who the real villain of the piece is.
Even now Picardo is having to back-pedal on his plans for sea-reclamations on the East side of Gibraltar as he concedes he needs permission from Spain for them under EU law concerning the transboundary effect.
http://www.gsdlive.gi/picardo-says-h...g-land-in-bgtw
The delay in dismantling of the sea reef is now just pure stubbornness by Picardo.
Where do the Gibraltarians get the idea from that they have the right to just breeze across the border into Spain ? If Spain has been lax with its border controls in the past towards Gibraltar, then that is a privilege granted by them and not a right.
These tougher border controls are a direct consequence of the Gibraltar Government's actions in planting the concrete blocks in the disputed waters, as you've said, and if posters wish to inform us of the waiting times at the border, we should also remind them of who the real villain of the piece is.
Even now Picardo is having to back-pedal on his plans for sea-reclamations on the East side of Gibraltar as he concedes he needs permission from Spain for them under EU law concerning the transboundary effect.
http://www.gsdlive.gi/picardo-says-h...g-land-in-bgtw
The delay in dismantling of the sea reef is now just pure stubbornness by Picardo.
Firstly, it is not 'the Gibraltarians' who are being mostly inconvenienced by this, it doesn't affect them much, it is the Spanish workers of La Linea closely followed by the many hundreds of expats who live in the Campo de Gibraltar and work on the rock (I know many of them) whose lives are being made unnecessarily difficult.
Secondly, the border controls are no tougher than they have ever been, they have just been reorganised to cause maximum misery. They are pulling over no more cars/bikes/pedestrians than they ever were they are just, on frequent occasions, refusing to let anyone else through - making them wait while they are dealing with the people they have stopped. They gain nothing from it other than causing totally unnecessary delay. They even on occasion just stop anyone crossing for long periods - no searches, no reason - just stop.
Also, the recently built Alcaidesa Marina in La Linea clearly violates the 'disputed' (as you call them) waters, note that no-one but Spain thinks there is any dispute. As is pointed out in the piece you linked to, Spain has not consulted with Gibraltar in that or any other works which affect Gibraltar waters and has itself built many such reefs.
May 21st 2014, 5:18 pm
#1393
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Re: Gibraltar
Gib was acquired because it was needed as part of the sea route to India, a piece of Real Estate which we got shot of a long time ago. Give the soddin' place back to Spain ! Or should we re-take Suez and recolonize the Raj ?
May 21st 2014, 5:19 pm
#1394
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Re: Gibraltar
What's the point ?
Do you remember a little while ago, confidential Foreign Office documents being released showing that the Spanish King admitted Spain did not want Gibraltar back just yet ?
Well there was another document -
In a confidential dispatch from Madrid to Geoffrey Howe, the then Foreign Secretary, Ambassador Parsons wrote: "The King emphasised, as he had done with me before, that that requirement was to take some step over Gibraltar which would keep public opinion quiet for the time being.
"It should be clearly understood in private by both governments that in fact Spain did not really seek an early solution to the sovereignty problem.
"If [Spain] recovered Gibraltar, King Hassan of Morocco would immediately activate his claim to Ceuta and Melilla.
"The two foreign ministers should reach a private understanding between each other, differentiating between their actual aim and the methods used to propitiate public opinion on both sides."
The Spanish and British Foreign Offices came to a truce decades ago not to pursue any issues about Gibraltar. The disputed land and water were to be left disputed.
Even though the ex-Foreign Secretary of Spain has said that Spain's case over Gibraltar is not certain, would you put the fate of Gibraltar in the hands of any European court, or an anti-colonialist World court ?
Nor would the British Foreign Office.
Undercover of the 300 year celebrations Gibraltar First Minister Fabian Picardo suddenly decides to annex the disputed waters by dropping concrete blocks to form a fish reef in it. A sillier place for it cannot be imagined. The Gibraltarians even want a British warship to be tied up a few hundred yards away from it, to guard it.
The Spanish have taken this as a breach of faith between the two governments, but know exactly who is to blame. They have had to take retaliatory measures to re-establish the status quo.
The British Government, whose strongest allies in Europe are Spain, also know who is to blame, and now the 300th year celebrations are over, are putting pressure on Picardo and the Gibraltar Government to return to the status quo.
Complaining to the British Government won't help Gibraltar at all.
Do you remember a little while ago, confidential Foreign Office documents being released showing that the Spanish King admitted Spain did not want Gibraltar back just yet ?
Well there was another document -
In a confidential dispatch from Madrid to Geoffrey Howe, the then Foreign Secretary, Ambassador Parsons wrote: "The King emphasised, as he had done with me before, that that requirement was to take some step over Gibraltar which would keep public opinion quiet for the time being.
"It should be clearly understood in private by both governments that in fact Spain did not really seek an early solution to the sovereignty problem.
"If [Spain] recovered Gibraltar, King Hassan of Morocco would immediately activate his claim to Ceuta and Melilla.
"The two foreign ministers should reach a private understanding between each other, differentiating between their actual aim and the methods used to propitiate public opinion on both sides."
The Spanish and British Foreign Offices came to a truce decades ago not to pursue any issues about Gibraltar. The disputed land and water were to be left disputed.
Even though the ex-Foreign Secretary of Spain has said that Spain's case over Gibraltar is not certain, would you put the fate of Gibraltar in the hands of any European court, or an anti-colonialist World court ?
Nor would the British Foreign Office.
Undercover of the 300 year celebrations Gibraltar First Minister Fabian Picardo suddenly decides to annex the disputed waters by dropping concrete blocks to form a fish reef in it. A sillier place for it cannot be imagined. The Gibraltarians even want a British warship to be tied up a few hundred yards away from it, to guard it.
The Spanish have taken this as a breach of faith between the two governments, but know exactly who is to blame. They have had to take retaliatory measures to re-establish the status quo.
The British Government, whose strongest allies in Europe are Spain, also know who is to blame, and now the 300th year celebrations are over, are putting pressure on Picardo and the Gibraltar Government to return to the status quo.
Complaining to the British Government won't help Gibraltar at all.
Firstly I believe I am right in saying that the UK has asked Spain to go to arbitration over the territorial waters question and Spain won't. There is really no question about this - Spain would lose if they did and they know it. Why on earth should Gibraltar be the only maritime territory with no territorial waters?
Secondly, can you explain why the reef is in a 'silly place'?
Thirdly, although I follow the Gibraltar situation quite closely I have not heard that they want the royal navy to tie up a warship a few hundred yards from it. Any source for that?
Last edited by jimenato; May 21st 2014 at 5:22 pm.
May 21st 2014, 5:22 pm
#1395
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Re: Gibraltar
