EsuriJohn

Hi Carol&John,

I don't think my villa will be all that different to your apartment. Certainly in France the H&S rules are being applied and you have to fence of your pool for safety, I think Spain is starting down this route. Next step will be disabled access, if you make a business of renting it out you will be required to comply. I think you are already supposed to inform the local tourist board if you rent your property and they will no doubt have criteria.

Regards,

John.

Den H

Hello Carol,

I have tried to find out information regarding shared pools. It seems that the regulations which apply are for any pools which are shared by more than 20 dwellings (they are different for hotels). I have attached the regulations which were sent to me, but unfortunately these need to be translated.

I don't know how much use this is.

Gill

EsuriJohn

Hi Den, Carol,

Too much Spanish for me but from what little I can understand it seems very comprehensive and covers everything from poolside surfaces to pH values and everything in between including trampolines. Couldn't find the reference to min numbers though. I am not convinced that individual properties will escape, just get caught under different regs probably set by the tourist office if you want to register as an official rental property.

Regards,

John.

PS Den however did you find this in the first instance?

jdr

It seems to me that Fadesa are breaching the health and safety regulations by building the pools that are not complying with the latest pool regulations

Carol&John

Hello again,
Thanks Gill for finding out more information about the pools. My computer is on slow mode; can't seem to download the file fast enough. I'll reply once I've seen it/read it.
Carol

Ned kelly

Had a good E mail a few months ago which, unfortunately I cannot find, it went on about riding downhill on a pedal cycle, no hands, with your duffle coat hanging from your head, no brakes on your bike- and no lights, wish I could find it.
What is all this health and safety thing about???
If you can't swim don't try and dive in the pool.-which, by the way will have no water in-so there will not be a problem.
Getting agitated by the minute-
Ned

mjp

Hi Is this the one you are thinking of?
Subject: FW: Born before 1984?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Born before the 198O's?
>>>>
>>>>According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who
>>>>were
>>>>kids in the 60's, 70's and early 80's probably shouldn't have
>>>>survived,
>>>>because our baby cots were covered with brightly coloured
>>>>lead-based
>>>>paint
>>>>which
>>>>was promptly chewed and licked. We had no childproof lids on
>>>>medicine
>>>>bottles,
>>>>or latches on doors or cabinets and it was fine to play with
>>>>pans.
>>>>
>>>>When we rode our bikes, we wore no helmets, just flip-flops and
>>>>fluorescent 'spokey dokey's' on our wheels. As children, we
>>>>would ride
>>>>in cars with no seat belts or airbags - riding in the passenger
>>>>seat
>>>>was a
>>>>treat.
>>>>
>>>>We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle and it
>>>>tasted
>>>>the same.
>>>>
>>>>We ate chips, bread and butter pudding and drank fizzy juice
>>>>with Sugar
>>>>in it, but we were never overweight because we were always
>>>>outside
>>>>playing.
>>>>
>>>>We shared one drink with four friends, from one bottle or can
>>>>and
>>>>no-one
>>>>actually died from this.
>>>>
>>>>We would spend hours building go-carts out of scraps and then
>>>>went top
>>>>speed down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes.
>>>>After
>>>>running into stinging nettles a few times, we learned to solve
>>>>the
>>>>problem.
>>>>
>>>>We would leave home in the morning and could play all day, as
>>>>long as
>>>>we
>>>>were back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us and no
>>>>one
>>>>minded.
>>>>
>>>>We did not have Play stations or X-Boxes, no video games at all.
>>>>No 99
>>>>channels on TV, no videotape movies, no surround sound, no
>>>>mobile
>>>>phones, no personal computers, no DVDs, no Internet chat rooms.
>>>>We had
>>>>friends -
>>>>we went outside and found them.
>>>>
>>>>We played elastics and rounders, and sometimes that ball really
>>>>hurt!
>>>>We
>>>>fell out of trees, got cut, and broke bones but there were no
>>>>law
>>>>suits.
>>>>We had full on fist fights but no prosecution followed from
>>>>other
>>>>parents.
>>>>
>>>>We played chap-the-door-run-away and were actually afraid of the
>>>>Owners
>>>>catching us. We walked to friends' homes.
>>>>
>>>>We also, believe it or not, WALKED to school; we didn't rely on
>>>>Mummy or
>>>>daddy to drive us to school, which was just round the corner.
>>>>
>>>>We made up games with sticks and tennis balls.
>>>>
>>>>We rode bikes in packs of 7 and wore our coats by only the hood.
>>>>
>>>>The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was
>>>>unheard
>>>>of...They actually sided with the law.
>>>>
>>>>This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and
>>>>problem
>>>>solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an
>>>>explosion
>>>>of
>>>>innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and
>>>>responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.
>>>>
>>>>And you're one of them. Congratulations!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Have a good week everyone.
Just thought I would mention noticed a couple of posts recently, possibly looking for accomodation when visiting or snagging. We have a ground floor 3 bed apartment in Rago 2 fully furnished and ready. Please email for any information if that would help anyone.

rogerbilko

Hello everyone, I am new to the discussion and have purchased a town house in manzanna6, like everyone else, I am in the dark as to when the house will be completed, and can get no response at all from Fadesa, however, I am going to site on thursday 11th, so if anyone wants me to have a look at anything for them or ask questions then please let me know. I feel very let down by Fadesa, they won't even answer my e mails, but this seems normal. I will post whatever I can find out on my return. The pools are much smaller than were described when I purchased the house.

Jon-Bxl

Hi everyone

I'm with Ned on this from a pragmatic level, but must say that not meeting codes could have a major impact on us, whether we agree philosophically or not. If I felt that the pools were not built to safety standards, I would have serious concerns about liability. The other word that has come into vogue over the years. (Let alone potential remedial re-work in the future, in itself a nightmare!) Sure in case of an accident we could 'blame' Fadesa, but we would still be in the loop as being in the owners syndicate. How the hell would we manage from afar some big legal issue? If nothing else it could be a real hassle - I need less as far as this development is concerned, not more! Furthermore this is a public forum, no-one can say 'we didnt know about it'.

I would have questions like "will it affect my insurance?", "will this mean that we should delay completion whilst Fadesa sort it out?", "will there have to be extensive re-work later? (in which case I say get it done now)", "with all the 3rd party renters/strangers coming in - am I covered if something happens to them", "should I accept a faulty product, knowing it is faulty in advance?".... there are consequences to that last statement, that I have no idea about in Spain. Especially when we are talking about safety/liability/serious regulations etc

Now you are all going to think I am really paranoid , but this is public, who knows who's reading this and seeing a big opportunity in the future to profit from this/us

It was me that used the word "poxy" for the pools (in my block)... they seem an afterthought and there is no space around them for a reasonable number of people to sit down in high season. Now we find that they could not be in the regs and a potential risk and possibly a liability - great, yet another balls-up! (Even though I dont think I personally would use them).

I think its very important to get a final asap on the forum and for each of us to contact our lawyers. Before completion. That way we can say that we alerted the lawyers in advance... and have covered our back-sides! Another necessity in the modern granny state (as the Americans say "CYA")!

I remain convinced that I delay completion as long as possible to hold on to completion monies, as its the last lever we have with Fadesa, if we do this en-masse we have some power. Sure there are guarantees etc, but based on previous experience with Fadesa I say again, if this is what they are like before they get our dosh, you know what they will be like after they've got it! I realise a lot of people have plans + dreams, but for me this is a big investment and I need to cover all the bases I can, in advance, before I get the keys.

Can somebody give me the official postal address of the shed please?

Also is there an address/contact solely dedicated to the Esuri development in London and/or Spain, please let me know?

Thinking "CYA" - I may also contact Fadesa as well as my lawyer to cover all the bases, and look after myself here - just in case.

Where's those little red pills? Who's stalking me? : Who's reading this post"


Hey its 8:43 am already - and there's a Fadesa issue.... Time for a drink!

Thanks and regards
Jon

billybassett

Oh pants!

Things just go from bad to worse!

My next job for the day is to write further letters to Fadesa about the swimming pools. I'll copy to my solicitor and also ask him to comment.

Thanks for the "e-mail" MJP. Loved it, and brought back great childhood memories.

Thanks Jan for the offer of accommodation. I'll be in touch.

I think with all these problems that Fadesa have just bitten off a little more than they can chew. How can they build all these properties, hotels, shops, golf courses and do it as well as they should. They need to go back to the drawing board and sort all these messes out. Right Now!

Karen

poollounger

I feel really sorry for all you people and the problems you are all facing...I remember standing in the showhouse and how seductive it all was..just remember the parental advice I often received..nothing worth having comes easily. As to pools...I have a villa with a new pool, and asked an agent about rules re fencing in the pool. She said there were none but some people did fence in...as ours is right in front of the house we intend to state when letting next year that it is only suitable for children over 12 and/or swimmers. A friend in France was dismayed to find that she was expected to fence in her pool, which is in an idyllic setting. Her gite is acroos the back of the house, and she has got around it by keeping the gate into the garden locked, with access by older children and adults only. There is also rumoured to be a device which one can float in the pool that activates an alarm if turned on and anyone falls in the pool, like a stray toddler.
When staying in the Parador at Carmona and Hotel Fuente in Grazalema last year they had times for using the pool, which were manned by a lifeguard during these hours. However there were many who used these pools outside of the stipulated times, and there never seemed to be any restriction on them doing so.

EsuriJohn

Hi poollounger, jon BXL, everyone,

Lets start the week on a positive note. I think I might have alarmed people by including the health and safety issue and the disabled access issue in the same post. They are not the same and they have different levels of importance.

H&S has massive liability but as far as I am aware the pools as-built comply with all current requirements. It is the operation of the pools which will require close attention by the management committee. The comunidad rules will have to be very clear about use and will have to be posted very prominently all around the pool.

This is the reason why communal pools have short seasons and when they are open are staffed by a lifeguard, The Communidad has two appointed positions, President and Manager, the later position is normally filled by a paid appointee who is expected to be qualified in building management He is the backstop who should be directly in the fireing line for the H&S police. So to that extent owners are indemnified.

The disabled access is a problem of a different magnitude and at worst would attract adverse publicity and a slap on the wrist for the Communidad. If individual owners clearly state in their brochure that the property is not, or is suitable for disabled use my view is that they have done all they can. Under the latest building regulations my house in MK is 15 years old and does not comply and would cost a fortune to bring up to current regs but I don't see disclaimers in adverts for properties of the same age being sold.

My villa will be built on a very steeply sloping plot about 1 in 6 with lots of steps and ramps. I can't change that but I can make it very clear to any potential tenant that they are there and it is then up to them to make the decision. I think its called personal responsibility

The weather here today is dull uniform grey with intermittent heavy rain and my arthritic wrist and ankle ache. I have had a peek at the webcam and its bright blue sky's with puffy white clouds and an expected high of 24 so its much better over there. As the song goes "lets look on the bright side of life" we are not disabled and we should do all we can to make it better for those who are so I have decided to incorporate Roman steps into my pool which I had omitted on cost grounds from the first plan but the pool will be at the bottom of the plot so not easy to access.

Regards,

John.

Pam Sarky

Hola John,

Welcome back. I have just read the bit you put on your post about the beautiful weather here. I agree, it is lovely and warm and sunny. The down side is the pollen is very high at the moment!!!! So anyone coming out soon who like me suffers from hayfever, dont forget your antihistamines.

Sam

Jon-Bxl

Aaah John 'Oil bringer for those of us with troubled waters!!'

Thanks for the info but I'd like to know why you feel comfortable on this statement "H&S has massive liability but as far as I am aware the pools as-built comply with all current requirements"

Of course as a villa owner you probably havent read all the details of the other properties, nor could you be expected to of course... but I'd like to have a confimation that actually the pools are built to full regulations... maybe Ive misread the other posts - which I can do as Ive been skimming a bit - but I gathered that there was a current issue. I apologise if I got it wrong, but the discussion has been good if we know this.

Then, once we are sure all is OK today, we need to ensure that in the future we cover ourselves for possible future rules/regs and requirements.

Wow getting signs put up etc and the buy-in of a communidad of people who are all over the place will be difficult. I am living in an appartment today and there are owner occupiers, like me, and many that are renting their appartments out. Trying to get consensus on the simplest things takes forever.

But of course I knew that when I bought here, I must say I never thought about swimming pool regs though, for people that might be renting. However if Fadesa are good today with the installation, thats a huge relief for me. I would just like that confirmed.

Thanks
Jon
PS I would still like the postal addresses of the shed and the address and contact details for the Fadesa-Esuri people in UK/Spain if anyone has it, please

MEL & JOHN

Hiya Jon-bxl

I have the addresses...but at home and I am in the office today. As soon as I get home I will email you the Fadesa address details, having said that you will probably have received a million replies by then !!

The Swimming Pools have a community manager:-

Mr Per Simonsgaard 00 34 902333567

Paula ( from the Shed ) has told me M2 "may" be completed next week as they now have the "promoters insurance" Paula also said we will have ELEC & WATER but Gas cannot be contracted until they have the "Licence of 1st Occupation" which will "hopefully" arrive the last week of May. She advises "to contact the lawyer to decide whether to sign the deeds without the licence"

Any Apt owners out there please ? Did you all have these licences B4 you signed ?

Regards

Mel