Cape Blue

Gross immigration to the UK has been running at around half a million a year for the past 10-15 years, with net at a quarter of a million pa.

The gross figure has an impact on the culture of the UK - for good and for bad.

The net figure has an impact on wages and accommodation costs - both for the bad (with no great impact on jobs re lump of labour fallacy).

If you look at a country like Germany that has not (until very recently) experienced high property and rent inflation, you can see that the population number has remained static over the past 20+ years, whilst the UK has increased by several million.

If we had not had the several million net increase, the issues of housing prices and rents in desirable areas would be far lower.

I'm not sure it is the job of local councils to build houses for immigrants to live subsidized lives. As long as councils have to focus on need, many immigrants will be needier than the local populace.

Pointing at high net immigration as one of the demand-side problems is not xenophobic blaming of immigrants, it is just pointing at one of the larger drivers of the problem (other demand-side ones are increased longevity and social changes such as divorce and the desire to live alone).

The "doing the jobs locals won't do" argument is the same as the Mexican's in the US - the reason locals won't do those jobs is precisely because employers can get foreigners (legal or illegal) to do the work for such low pay. If employers didn't have a raft of illegals (US) or eastern Europeans (UK & willing to under-house themselves for a few years) they would have to pay more to attract labor and a head of lettuce would cost 20 cents more.

rebeccajo

I don't understand why people get bent out of shape with the concept of the local population not wanting to do low-skilled jobs.

The majority of any local workforce is usually more "skilled" than a migrant if by no other credential than language. They are usually more "skilled" because whatever education they do have is the local norm. Low skilled work is normally left to those locals who are school leavers. Most school leavers are under achievers and that's not a habit they are likely to break as long as they are warm, dry and fed. Either by their parents or by society.

Being out on the street with nobody to fall back on but yourself is life's biggest motivator. A migrant is often one of those people. If they don't work, they don't eat. So they will take anything. I don't know of any nation with a modern recorded history of migration that hasn't seen the same phenomenon. Chinese came to the US in the late 1800's and worked on the railroads. Irish, Germans and Italians came to the US in the early 1900's and cleaned houses, swept streets, worked on the docks or whatever else they could get. They needed to eat.

It's not just about the locals not being willing to DO low skilled work. They can't compete with someone who comes in and is happy to take the job. Instead of taking it on begrudgingly.

It's about education vs. motivation. If the 'layabouts' had even a basic education, their education and place in the local society would naturally give them preference over the migrant. But they chose not to be motivated. So the hungry migrant wins. It's right there in all the history books for anyone to see. It's nothing new or unique to the UK.

Giantaxe

It's hardly making Thatcher a scapegoat to say that a direct consequence of her policies was a collapse in the building of social housing.

Similarly, it wouldn't be making Beeching a scapegoat to say that some of his rail line closures are now both regretted and irreversible.

Bud the Wiser

Can we blame the rise of the SNP on the Romans and the building of Hadrian's wall? Might as well.

Editha

Always easier to find a scapegoat to blame, like immigrants, than examine facts isn't it?

Bipat

In fact many immigrants are educated and skilled--but they take low skilled jobs because they have to!!! (Many immigrant bus drivers/factory workers in the 60s -70s-80s had degrees). As you say though, they had motivation and aspirations for their children. The GCSE results show Chinese and Indian origin children out performing others. Such offspring will go on to get better jobs than their parents.
The recent speech by Michelle Obama in a Tower Hamlets school should be repeated by head teachers in all schools!!
Would agree though that immigration obviously needs control, UK is an Island with limited space.

Shard

Which question was that? If it's the "people who would have bought through Right to Buy" I did answer it. They would live in the same affordable accommodation on rental basis or in a purchased property if they had the budget to do so.

Bud the Wiser

Uncontrolled Immigration not immigrants. I don't blame them at all. Always easier to throw out accusations than discuss the subject.

And, probably, the only purchased property they would be able to buy would be the 'right to buy' property. Either way that property does not go back on the availability list.

At the end of the day it is undeniable that the UK infrastructure is under immense pressure due, in no small part, to the increase in population.

Grayling

Still trolling Bud?

You could do with some new material.....this is all a bit predictable

Shard

Incorrect. Some of the "affordable" property does become available as people move on. You said you understood this, but clearly you don't.

Bud the Wiser

They're not moving on, they're staying in the same house. We'll have to agree to differ on this because it's a small point in the overall picture of the current crisis facing many of the services in the UK due to increased population.

Grayling

Strange how you living wherever you do can see this crisis but I live here and can't

I have experienced none of the problems you claim are rife

Bud the Wiser

Using that logic we would have to discredit everything you said about the UK when you lived in Australia.

Come on be sensible. If you know how to use google ( link Google ) you can do your own research.

FYI. I will not respond to any more of your posts on this thread as you have a history of disrupting threads by posting irrelevant comments that have nothing to do with the subject matter and are designed to stir up trouble. e.g. post #84 on this thread.

Grayling

And your trolling isn't?

Grayling

.....and why do I have to use google to research?

I actually live in the UK...do you?