Sally Redux

Stop all inward migration? Really?

From the way people are weeping and wailing I thought this would be millions, not hundreds of thousands, a figure which includes returning British citizens.

It's like some mind control is in play here.

not2old

Round numbers of 300,000/yr net migration is not a big number & if you consider [for the sake of discussion] take it that 50% are from the EU, of those, 50% have a few children while on British soil - the net result in 10 years could be an extra 5- million people population increase (just from the migrants alone) give or take a few. Time for the baby boomers to start dying off to make room for the migrants

As for the smaller number of non EU spouses of British citizens going into the UK that have to go through all of that FM visa route - it makes you wonder where the real immigration issue is?

Sally Redux

I don't even understand your second paragraph. The first is conjecture. Yes maybe the baby boomers have been ruling the roost for too long. Someone has to pay for the NHS etc.

Shard

What's all this about jars ?

Pistolpete2

It seems to me that the best way to get NET-migration down would be to have a truly crumby economy such that loads would want to leave, including the brightest and best (reminds me of the 60s and 70s) and nobody would want to come. Would that make us happy?

It does send a confusing message when expats looking inwards at the UK are complaining at levels of migration into the UK mostly from migrants (and their spouses) looking to work or students looking to get further educated and then leave.

The migrants are far more likely to be desperately-needed net contributors to the UK economy than returning expats who have often been raised in the UK at taxpayer expense and who then leave to pay their taxes elsewhere and then look to return right when their earnings power is least and their drain on health and other care is highest.

Expats may be British but citizenship doesn't seem to feature much in present-day UK conversation other than amongst the UKIP-type moaners. Both major political parties talk of contribution and fairness more these days.

It seems to me that the inwards migration numbers were a problem long ago when unskilled workers arrived in huge numbers simply because they could due to a lack of foresight on the part of the powers that be when other nations properly planned for the effects of EU enlargement. Today's numbers are minute in comparison.

Clearly the UK 'indigenous' workforce is not providing the 'talent' that is needed to sustain current employer needs so those employers are looking elsewhere and particularly outside the EU. Many are crying out for the skills that are simply lacking 'locally' if only due to the mis-match between potential indigenous employee aspirations and actual demand.

As in the US, admittedly we are seeing a hollowing out of the middle employee ground due to automation and decline in business activity in financial services specifically here in the UK, and the rest is not being helped by globalisation, particularly in manufacturing. Unfortunately the now inevitable reality of a decline of decent job opportunities in mature western economies is not part of the conversation. It needs to be or it will create a profound shock. This makes it doubly important that the UK cultivate a 'local' workforce in the niche technical/engineering areas it is so good at by engaging kids at secondary school level so that they don't end up joining the queue for jobs as a barista at the newly-opening Costa Coffee, as a university graduate in media studies.

Employers, it seems, now tend to increase UK productivity - such as it is, at the bottom-end of the scale in Europe - by seeking cheaper 'hungrier' labour rather than through innovation, investment and training and importing the skills plays into this. This indeed is a problem and is a big reason why employers would want to stay in the EU.

Better-directed education and careers guidance, which amongst other things would portray a career in the sciences as being more exciting with substantial rewards, would help to alleviate all of this, in my view. Increased funding for apprenticeships is a step in the right direction.

Shard

Very good post.

not2old

Likely the inward migration of some 600,000+ is not such a big issue, with possibly a closer look at the 300,000 or so outbound migration numbers

Could this be a revival of the 50's, 60's & 70's. when folks were migrating all over the place, when Brits & Europeans were migrating to OZ, USA, Canada, SA or just that its the 'brain drain' game & within it the 'EU freedom of movement is the new frontier?

rebeccajo

Yes. Indeed. Thanks, pete.

formula

Not from the fiqures. The UK limits the visas for the talent that is needed by UK employers to 20,700 per year (unless they are on the shortages list or earn a salary of over about 156,00). Yet only half of those limited visas are used by employers each year. That limit is reviewed annually and has never needed to rise.

scot47

The National: Obsession with immigration is founded more on myth than reality | Patrick Harvie

boom_meringue

Good lord, are we still seeing posts like this? I can remember in 2005 getting together with a bunch of people on here, many of whom were moving to Australia to get away from "all the immigrants" moving to the UK.

How bloody retarded, and ironic.

Most first world economies are facing devastation over the next 20 years because of the crumbling economic base propping up the retiring baby boomers, the influx of immigrants into the UK has actually raised the birth rate for the first time in decades to a point where the UK might be able to actually afford the over inflated expectations of the retiring masses.

This is an immigration forum, how ironic that people are still complaining about immigrants when they are quite happy to become immigrants themselves...

knighstrike

When British nationals immigrate, they don't call themselves 'immigrants.' They call themselves, 'expats.'

themajor

The BIG difference with the british emmigrating is the they-we put a lot in to the economy of the country that we emigrate to. Buying or renting property, spending our hard earned cash. Where as as many of the immigrants to the UK come as scroungers and take advantage of all the freebies, then bring in there relatives and so it grows and is exploited even more.

Editha

Speaking personally, I put absolutely nothing into the economy of Canada during the 8 years I was there, other than buying a property, but apart from making it harder for a Canadian to afford a home, I can't see what my 'contribution' was. None of my cash has been hard earned either, in fact nowadays most of it is inherited wealth. But, I was quite happy to take advantage of Canada's excellent health service, libraries and arts subsidies.

Nor have I ever known an immigrant to the UK who came to 'scrounge'. Nowadays most of the immigrants I meet are eastern europeans working in the catering industry. And I'm always pleased to see them since their presence almost almost guarantees clean plates ad cutlery and a better quality of food than when British staff are employed.

And by the way, adopting an air of racial superiority went out of fashion around 1945.

scot47

I wonder how the Navajo and the Australian Aborigines feel about this debate.