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Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Old Aug 22nd 2013, 12:59 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Hard to interpret a debt graph like that without knowing how the economy has grown over the same period. I will say that the period post-2000 is scary in the way government debt has grown in western countries, mainly but not wholly to bail out banks and -in the US's case - to fight an ill-planned war in Iraq.
I also consider Iraq to be an error as well. It's hard for us mere mortals to know what's going on, but unless a strong argument can be made for stopping Chinese and Russian intervention and investment in the ME, I cannot see the strategic value to the war at all. Worse, its financial consequences have been dire, as you point out. It's a counterfactual, but what is the price of oil in a world where the ME is no controlled by the US? What is the impact on US influence with no petrodollar? (Which is what would be the case if Saddam, Gaddafi et al had been permitted to sell their resources in euros as they wished).
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 6:26 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
The links seemed relevant to the discussion to me
I thought so, most are intelligent enough to just click on them and have a look. They are very relevant as you say, you could be mistaken for thinking it was all doom and gloom otherwise
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 6:30 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
Maybe you just joined the discussion at that point.

I think you are being unnecessarily pedantic.
Dont worry, there is history which I think is more relevant than the fact I posted some relevant links.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 6:38 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by not2old View Post
I originally came on this thread at post#532

I don't have the crystal ball...

RM, is it really that bad, if so, is it fixable ever or will it just keep on sinking in your opinion?

As for the next 10 years as you pointed out, can the common electorate do anything about it or is it a wait & see to 'carry on Britain' trust the UK government to fix it or WISH & HOPE some white knight will snap its fingers and it'll be alright?

If its fixable, RM what would you like to see done if you had the power to do it?

What are the options - to stand & fight to make it better or leave the sinking ship Britannia. I'd add that whinging doesn't make the problem go away, nor will each successive government IMO
No, it isnt that bad. As someone actually living here I can say that hand on heart. When we lived here in the 80's people would carry on about how the country was a sinking ship, its gone to the dogs, finished, blah blah blah. Well its got a bloody slow leak I grew up in Australia but it has become a country I dont want to live in, that doesnt mean it isnt a great country for others to live in and the same applies to this country. It suits some who have left to put across the view that the country is finished, just as many did back in the 80's or even back in 1962 when I arrived in Australia. It is no more true now than it was back then but it does make people feel better about their decision.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 7:41 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

First lot.

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Youth unemployment is up though, which is never a good sign. Plus, I read today that UK's public finances are in the red again, unexpectedly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/b...kets-live.html
Well, it's to be expected isn't it?

Originally Posted by chris955 View Post
There you go, every silver lining has a cloud.


Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just posting a report I read today. I'm not responsible for the state of the UK economy.
I was beginning to wonder.

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
Thank-you. Bookmarked-and I will be reading it!

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
If you wish to be part of a discussion, then you need to actually discuss rather than just place links into a post. At the moment your post is meaningless.
I think you might find that the poster has done just the teeniest weensiest bit of discussing.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 7:51 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Post 598 is not.
Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Perhaps, but they are just links with nothing from the poster. Putting aside the laziness of doing that, it is unclear if they are in reply to something, and what if any point he may be making. Without that, I won't be following the links as part of a discussion.
Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
It's annoying when someone does that at the very start of a thread, but Chris was already exploring a line of argument and had talked about positive news items in several preceding posts.
Yup.

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
The posts immediately before the one we're talking about was his post talking about effective zero interest rates for mortgage holders being good, and institutions being wary about lending - and the next post was mine saying that the official interest rate is an indication of the economy, rather than whether it affects borrowers or savers.

Were the 3 links he posted about this?
Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Going by the 3 posts immediately prior to his post with 3 links, then I can only presume the links are about mortgages, the effective zero interest rate, or institutions lending money. Without any discussion, or a quote of another post, then posting about anything else seems confused without any input from the poster if they just post links.

How many of the links are about mortgages, the effective zero interest rate or institutions lending money?
Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
As I haven't followed the links, I don't know how many are relevant to the discussion at the time. If they refer to something else in this thread, then the quote system wasn't used. I'm guessing with this reply that none of the links are relevant to where the discussion was at the time. Expecting a poster to use the quote system if not making a reply about where the discussion is at the time isn't really pedantic as it's the normal approach expected on a forum.
Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
Ever wish you'd never started something.
I bet the OP does...........

(I left some posts here unanswered because they speak for themselves..)

.........I wanted to put up five links (I love links!) but then I thought to myself, nah! don't want no trouble.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 11:27 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

The media have had a field day on our current economic situation - things are not bad, in fact there has been a significant turnaround in the property market and the retailers have had a bumper summer due to the great weather. I have not noticed any difference - just people are being a little more careful with their money.... Living in Suffolk - things are just the same as they have been for decades!!
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 11:35 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by HomaPropertyFinders View Post
The media have had a field day on our current economic situation - things are not bad, in fact there has been a significant turnaround in the property market and the retailers have had a bumper summer due to the great weather. I have not noticed any difference - just people are being a little more careful with their money.... Living in Suffolk - things are just the same as they have been for decades!!
Thats exactly as we are seeing it, lots of positive news and talk of manufacturing investing, taking on more workers, orders up, as you say retail looking healthy etc etc. The problem is when you say anything like this someone comes along as says well it isnt great for everyone. Well of course it bloody isnt, it has never been great for everyone. I can only comment on what I see with my own eyes as someone actually living here. Show me a country where everyone is doing well and has no worries and, well quite frankly I wont believe you.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 12:08 pm
  #624  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

The population of the UK rose by over 400, 000 from June 2011 to June 2012 according to the ONS to a total of just under 64 million. According to Migrationwatch it is in excess of 65 million, and the supermarket surveys suggest it is already approaching 70 million. Whichever is right that represents enormous annual increases. (When I was at school in the late 60s, UK population was predicted to be around 45 million by the Millennium, and dropping)

However, not only does total employment continue to rise, and make new records, but unemployment is gradually reducing too. IMO that is a pretty astonishing achievement and the exact opposite of what all the doomsayers have said would result from the slowing of Government expenditure.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/la...-bulletin.html

Personally, I think that is probably the most conclusive answer possible to the OP's question.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 12:24 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by bigglesworth View Post
The population of the UK rose by over 400, 000 from June 2011 to June 2012 according to the ONS to a total of just under 64 million. According to Migrationwatch it is in excess of 65 million, and the supermarket surveys suggest it is already approaching 70 million. Whichever is right that represents enormous annual increases. (When I was at school in the late 60s, UK population was predicted to be around 45 million by the Millennium, and dropping)

However, not only does total employment continue to rise, and make new records, but unemployment is gradually reducing too. IMO that is a pretty astonishing achievement and the exact opposite of what all the doomsayers have said would result from the slowing of Government expenditure.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/la...-bulletin.html

Personally, I think that is probably the most conclusive answer possible to the OP's question.
One of Britain's biggest issues is overpopulation. How to you maintain an economic system that demands constant population growth when you live in one of the world's smallest countries?
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 12:32 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by bigglesworth View Post

However, not only does total employment continue to rise, and make new records, but unemployment is gradually reducing too. IMO that is a pretty astonishing achievement and the exact opposite of what all the doomsayers have said would result from the slowing of Government expenditure.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/la...-bulletin.html

Personally, I think that is probably the most conclusive answer possible to the OP's question.
Exactly right and exactly what the OP wants to hear.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 2:23 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
One of Britain's biggest issues is overpopulation. How to you maintain an economic system that demands constant population growth when you live in one of the world's smallest countries?
Sorry Zen I do not want to get into an argument but those are merely suppositions and very much depend on your POV.

I would suggest that the only real issue is that of Governments of all hues until very recently failing to be upfront about population increases, and thereby failing to adequately provide resources.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by zansuffolk View Post
The media have had a field day on our current economic situation - things are not bad, in fact there has been a significant turnaround in the property market and the retailers have had a bumper summer due to the great weather.
Interesting you should say that, as according to this recent article, the improved retail figures are fuelled by debt and will prove to be unsustainable with people taking out payday loans and raiding their savings to go on shopping sprees.

Also refers to people's incomes falling in real terms, and have been for 5 years. The governments Help to Buy scheme is also helping to fuel (or further fuel) a property bubble.

Mentioned recently by someone on a post on this forums (can't remember which forum or thread now - might even be this one), the government schemes propping up the ability to get mortgages effectively makes the government (and therefore the tax payer) a subprime lender.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by bigglesworth View Post
However, not only does total employment continue to rise, and make new records, but unemployment is gradually reducing too. IMO that is a pretty astonishing achievement and the exact opposite of what all the doomsayers have said would result from the slowing of Government expenditure.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/la...-bulletin.html
According to those figures, for the quarter Apr-Jun 2013, unemployment was down 4,000 making 2,510,000 people still unemployed. I don't think that figure is astonishing in a good way, rather it's really quite a bleak picture. In addition there are 8,990,000 people economically inactive - many of those will be people who have stopped bothering to look for work after being unemployed for so long.
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Old Aug 22nd 2013, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by chris955 View Post
Originally Posted by not2old View Post
I originally came on this thread at post#532

I don't have the crystal ball...

RM, is it really that bad, if so, is it fixable ever or will it just keep on sinking in your opinion?

As for the next 10 years as you pointed out, can the common electorate do anything about it or is it a wait & see to 'carry on Britain' trust the UK government to fix it or WISH & HOPE some white knight will snap its fingers and it'll be alright?

If its fixable, RM what would you like to see done if you had the power to do it?

What are the options - to stand & fight to make it better or leave the sinking ship Britannia. I'd add that whinging doesn't make the problem go away, nor will each successive government IMO
No, it isnt that bad. As someone actually living here I can say that hand on heart.
As someone who is living in the UK, yes the situation in the UK is not good. There are people, like Chris who are in a very good position financially (in his case off the back of a property boom in Australia), however the figures show a whole load of people where the situation is quite bleak - and in certain parts of the country probably quite unbearably so.

No one has a crystal ball, we can only go on what's happening, and how it's been going in recent times. So far the UK is about 5 years into a period of economical "flatness" or recession (depending what periods within that time you look at), which to me indicates the possibility of the "depression" word that no one seems to like to think about.

As previously mentioned, it could be 2-3 years before unemployment gets down to 7% (which is still high), which will mean possibly 8+ years of a flat job market. During the last 4 years there have been reports here and there indicating that things are picking up in various areas of the economy, but as of now this has not led anywhere.

It should eventually be sorted out, the UK has had relatively more debt in the past - a lot more at certain points in history. However I fear there are a number of years of pain ahead for many people. Those who are doing fine will not feel that of course, but you never know which side of the fence you're going to land.
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