medical tratment in paris
Dec 5th 2003 | 3:41 am
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Gregory Morrow writes:
>>
>> > Don't think it *can't* happen to you - it *can*, in a flash!
>>
>> Falling ill is a very common cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. And one
>> need not fall gravely ill.
>>
>> My mother had a simple gall bladder operation, and the hospital charged
>> her $40,000 for the procedure. Fortunately, she was smart, and demanded
>> actual justification for the charges: signed doctors' orders, test
>> results, etc. When she pressed for documentation, the hospital lowered
>> the bill to _only_ $6500! So that's at least $33,500 in gravy that they
>> fully expected to obtain. And a lot of people would simply have paid
>> the bill, even if they had to sell everything they owned to do so.
>> Other people would not have had the means to pay the bill, and would
>> have spent the rest of their lives making payments.
>and the insurance companies pay the much lower rate -- [although they
>have routinely not acknowledged that when YOU are required to pay 20% of
>the cost i.e. it was common for insurance companies to pay their 80%
>based on the inflated bill presented to the uninsured -- sticking the
>patient with over 50% of the actual cost.
>e.g. in your case -- 20% would have been $8,000 -- so if the insurance
>company actually paid $6500, you mother if insured might actually have
>paid the entire cost.
That answers my question before I asked it.
My health insurance (in Ireland) pays 100% of the cost of treatment.
If any bills here are padded -- or, to put it in terms which are
kinder to medical practitioners, set to cover the full economic cost
of treatment -- it is those paid by insurance companies. I suspect
that some practitioners have two scales of charges: high for those
paying out of their own pockets, and very high for those covered by
insurance.
People of limited means and without insurance get treated free, but
for non-critical problems they often have to wait months or, in some
cases, years.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Gregory Morrow writes:
>>
>> > Don't think it *can't* happen to you - it *can*, in a flash!
>>
>> Falling ill is a very common cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. And one
>> need not fall gravely ill.
>>
>> My mother had a simple gall bladder operation, and the hospital charged
>> her $40,000 for the procedure. Fortunately, she was smart, and demanded
>> actual justification for the charges: signed doctors' orders, test
>> results, etc. When she pressed for documentation, the hospital lowered
>> the bill to _only_ $6500! So that's at least $33,500 in gravy that they
>> fully expected to obtain. And a lot of people would simply have paid
>> the bill, even if they had to sell everything they owned to do so.
>> Other people would not have had the means to pay the bill, and would
>> have spent the rest of their lives making payments.
>and the insurance companies pay the much lower rate -- [although they
>have routinely not acknowledged that when YOU are required to pay 20% of
>the cost i.e. it was common for insurance companies to pay their 80%
>based on the inflated bill presented to the uninsured -- sticking the
>patient with over 50% of the actual cost.
>e.g. in your case -- 20% would have been $8,000 -- so if the insurance
>company actually paid $6500, you mother if insured might actually have
>paid the entire cost.
That answers my question before I asked it.
My health insurance (in Ireland) pays 100% of the cost of treatment.
If any bills here are padded -- or, to put it in terms which are
kinder to medical practitioners, set to cover the full economic cost
of treatment -- it is those paid by insurance companies. I suspect
that some practitioners have two scales of charges: high for those
paying out of their own pockets, and very high for those covered by
insurance.
People of limited means and without insurance get treated free, but
for non-critical problems they often have to wait months or, in some
cases, years.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Dec 5th 2003 | 4:44 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
The average frenchman has that at home...
"Nathaniel Riesenberg" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
message de news:[email protected]
> On Friday, November 28, 2003, while in Paris, I tripped and fell down
> and from the fall, was bleeding at and around the area of my right
> eye(the most serious bleeding was at my eyebrow.) 3 plainclothes
> policemen who were just passing by inquired as to why I bleeding and
> suggested that I go to a hospital (they spoke English, which helped in
> my description of the cause--I wss not mugged.)
> My hotel was just a few blocks away, and was planning to self treat my
> wound(as I would have done in the USA). The deskman at the hotel also
> suggested that I go to the a hospital and directed me to its location.
> Enroute without my asking, several people offered me further info as
> to the hospital's location (they could see that I was bleeding and in
> need of medical assistance.)
> After a short wait, in the emergency area, I was given stitches, a
> tetanus shot, they took x-rays of my head and rib cage(I felt pain in
> that area from the fall.) They gave me a short reflex test to see if
> my coordination was OK.
> They took down my driver's license and passport information; since I
> was from the USA, they noted that I spoke English; being treated by a
> doctor who spoke English made things easier. I asked how much all
> this will cost me, the doctor didn't think I would have to pay
> anything. [They might still send me a bill; but did NOT ask for my
> credit card info on the initial check-in.]
> One related curiosity: I had to get my shirt, sweater and coat
> washed--since they had a fair amount of blood. I found a self service
> laundry. Of the 5 dryers, 3 had instructions only in ENGLISH! I
> wonder how the average Frenchman deals with those 3. (Everthing else
> in the laundry was in French.)
"Nathaniel Riesenberg" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
message de news:[email protected]
> On Friday, November 28, 2003, while in Paris, I tripped and fell down
> and from the fall, was bleeding at and around the area of my right
> eye(the most serious bleeding was at my eyebrow.) 3 plainclothes
> policemen who were just passing by inquired as to why I bleeding and
> suggested that I go to a hospital (they spoke English, which helped in
> my description of the cause--I wss not mugged.)
> My hotel was just a few blocks away, and was planning to self treat my
> wound(as I would have done in the USA). The deskman at the hotel also
> suggested that I go to the a hospital and directed me to its location.
> Enroute without my asking, several people offered me further info as
> to the hospital's location (they could see that I was bleeding and in
> need of medical assistance.)
> After a short wait, in the emergency area, I was given stitches, a
> tetanus shot, they took x-rays of my head and rib cage(I felt pain in
> that area from the fall.) They gave me a short reflex test to see if
> my coordination was OK.
> They took down my driver's license and passport information; since I
> was from the USA, they noted that I spoke English; being treated by a
> doctor who spoke English made things easier. I asked how much all
> this will cost me, the doctor didn't think I would have to pay
> anything. [They might still send me a bill; but did NOT ask for my
> credit card info on the initial check-in.]
> One related curiosity: I had to get my shirt, sweater and coat
> washed--since they had a fair amount of blood. I found a self service
> laundry. Of the 5 dryers, 3 had instructions only in ENGLISH! I
> wonder how the average Frenchman deals with those 3. (Everthing else
> in the laundry was in French.)
Dec 5th 2003 | 6:50 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Go Fig writes:
> But why didn't she have insurance ?
She doesn't work, and her husband's insurance does not cover her, as I
said. Where is the insurance going to come from?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> But why didn't she have insurance ?
She doesn't work, and her husband's insurance does not cover her, as I
said. Where is the insurance going to come from?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 5th 2003 | 6:51 am
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Go Fig writes:
> Well, since she didn't work, how did she eat or put clothes on her back ?
She lives with my father, who does work, and additionally they both
receive small Social Security payments (not to be confused with any type
of health plan). It's a fairly common situation in the U.S.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Well, since she didn't work, how did she eat or put clothes on her back ?
She lives with my father, who does work, and additionally they both
receive small Social Security payments (not to be confused with any type
of health plan). It's a fairly common situation in the U.S.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 5th 2003 | 6:51 am
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
[email protected] writes:
> That is, seriously, shocking: both the scale of the original bill, and the
> amount by which it must have been padded.
I agree. To me, it's pretty blatantly fraudulent.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> That is, seriously, shocking: both the scale of the original bill, and the
> amount by which it must have been padded.
I agree. To me, it's pretty blatantly fraudulent.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 5th 2003 | 7:20 am
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > Well, since she didn't work, how did she eat or put clothes on her back ?
>
> She lives with my father, who does work, and additionally they both
> receive small Social Security payments (not to be confused with any type
> of health plan). It's a fairly common situation in the U.S.
As is the income earner to pay a health insurance premium.
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
`
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > Well, since she didn't work, how did she eat or put clothes on her back ?
>
> She lives with my father, who does work, and additionally they both
> receive small Social Security payments (not to be confused with any type
> of health plan). It's a fairly common situation in the U.S.
As is the income earner to pay a health insurance premium.
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
`
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Dec 5th 2003 | 7:22 am
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> > That is, seriously, shocking: both the scale of the original bill, and the
> > amount by which it must have been padded.
>
> I agree. To me, it's pretty blatantly fraudulent.
The GOA estimates that for Medicare alone there is faulty billing to the
tune of $20 billion per years. A very good reason for a co-pay.
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> > That is, seriously, shocking: both the scale of the original bill, and the
> > amount by which it must have been padded.
>
> I agree. To me, it's pretty blatantly fraudulent.
The GOA estimates that for Medicare alone there is faulty billing to the
tune of $20 billion per years. A very good reason for a co-pay.
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Dec 5th 2003 | 7:24 am
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > But why didn't she have insurance ?
>
> She doesn't work, and her husband's insurance does not cover her, as I
> said. Where is the insurance going to come from?
From his earnings... just like the food and clothes she has.
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > But why didn't she have insurance ?
>
> She doesn't work, and her husband's insurance does not cover her, as I
> said. Where is the insurance going to come from?
From his earnings... just like the food and clothes she has.
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Dec 5th 2003 | 8:38 am
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Go Fig writes:
> >
> > > But why didn't she have insurance ?
> >
> > She doesn't work, and her husband's insurance does not cover her, as I
> > said. Where is the insurance going to come from?
>
> From his earnings... just like the food and clothes she has.
because we know that everyone has the 5,6 or more thousand a year that
individual insurance is likely to cost -- and that everyone is insurable
classic answer from someone who has what they need and so assumes
anyone who doesn't should just die
>
> jay
> Fri, Dec 5, 2003
> mailto:[email protected]
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Go Fig writes:
> >
> > > But why didn't she have insurance ?
> >
> > She doesn't work, and her husband's insurance does not cover her, as I
> > said. Where is the insurance going to come from?
>
> From his earnings... just like the food and clothes she has.
because we know that everyone has the 5,6 or more thousand a year that
individual insurance is likely to cost -- and that everyone is insurable
classic answer from someone who has what they need and so assumes
anyone who doesn't should just die
>
> jay
> Fri, Dec 5, 2003
> mailto:[email protected]
Dec 5th 2003 | 8:43 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
> A very good reason for a co-pay.
Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
[email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
> A very good reason for a co-pay.
Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
Dec 5th 2003 | 9:11 am
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
>
> > A very good reason for a co-pay.
>
> Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
payment you must make to receive insured service e.g. I have to pay $25
for each doctor's visit -- my insurance picks up from there. Typically
American medical insurance for major illnesses/surgery etc pays 80% with
the patient paying the other 20% So we had to pay $1000 for the $5000
cost of my husband hernia surgery for example.
for a prescription, I again have to pay $25 for each branded
prescription -- or $15 for generics -- before insurance picks up.
co-payment
wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
>
> > A very good reason for a co-pay.
>
> Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
payment you must make to receive insured service e.g. I have to pay $25
for each doctor's visit -- my insurance picks up from there. Typically
American medical insurance for major illnesses/surgery etc pays 80% with
the patient paying the other 20% So we had to pay $1000 for the $5000
cost of my husband hernia surgery for example.
for a prescription, I again have to pay $25 for each branded
prescription -- or $15 for generics -- before insurance picks up.
co-payment
Dec 5th 2003 | 9:55 am
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Go Fig writes:
> As is the income earner to pay a health insurance premium.
Yes. But not all jobs include health plans that cover the employee's
spouse or other dependents. Many jobs provide no health coverage at
all.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> As is the income earner to pay a health insurance premium.
Yes. But not all jobs include health plans that cover the employee's
spouse or other dependents. Many jobs provide no health coverage at
all.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 5th 2003 | 9:55 am
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Go Fig writes:
> From his earnings... just like the food and clothes she has.
The insurance premiums required to cover her would be more than the two
of them earn together.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> From his earnings... just like the food and clothes she has.
The insurance premiums required to cover her would be more than the two
of them earn together.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 5th 2003 | 1:48 pm
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Jenn) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
> >
> > > A very good reason for a co-pay.
> >
> > Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
>
> payment you must make to receive insured service
Thanks for the clarification. It sounds pretty much like what is called an
"excess" on insurance policies in Britain; I don't know if you use that
term in the US...?
[email protected] (Jenn) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
> >
> > > A very good reason for a co-pay.
> >
> > Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
>
> payment you must make to receive insured service
Thanks for the clarification. It sounds pretty much like what is called an
"excess" on insurance policies in Britain; I don't know if you use that
term in the US...?
Dec 5th 2003 | 2:20 pm
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Jenn) wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
> > >
> > > > A very good reason for a co-pay.
> > >
> > > Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
> >
> > payment you must make to receive insured service
>
> Thanks for the clarification. It sounds pretty much like what is called an
> "excess" on insurance policies in Britain; I don't know if you use that
> term in the US...?
Not so much, most everyone knows it as a co-pay. Time and time again,
it has shown to make for more accurate billing.
Is inaccurate billing much of a discussion point in the UK health
delivery system ?
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Jenn) wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] (Go Fig) wrote:
> > >
> > > > A very good reason for a co-pay.
> > >
> > > Save me a Google: what's a co-pay?
> >
> > payment you must make to receive insured service
>
> Thanks for the clarification. It sounds pretty much like what is called an
> "excess" on insurance policies in Britain; I don't know if you use that
> term in the US...?
Not so much, most everyone knows it as a co-pay. Time and time again,
it has shown to make for more accurate billing.
Is inaccurate billing much of a discussion point in the UK health
delivery system ?
jay
Fri, Dec 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
