medical tratment in paris
Dec 3rd 2003 | 5:40 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter L writes:
>
> > Subzero temps are not improbable in Palm Springs. It's
> > impossible.
>
> That's what we thought about 117° F temperatures in Paris, until this
> last August.
>
> > The reason for heat wave deaths is due to heat? Why, thank
> > you for clearing that up. I am saying many in France do
> > blame the health system for lack of preparedness. Whether
> > it's justified or not is not the issue here.
>
> They are clueless. The health system had nothing to do with the deaths,
> apart from the fact that the hospitals should have been air conditioned,
> too.
the hospitals sent people home to die -- the health system did not gear
up when they saw the impact of the heat to identify and secure
vulnerable people -- it was a failure in the health system -- but it is
understandable given the novelty of the situation
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter L writes:
>
> > Subzero temps are not improbable in Palm Springs. It's
> > impossible.
>
> That's what we thought about 117° F temperatures in Paris, until this
> last August.
>
> > The reason for heat wave deaths is due to heat? Why, thank
> > you for clearing that up. I am saying many in France do
> > blame the health system for lack of preparedness. Whether
> > it's justified or not is not the issue here.
>
> They are clueless. The health system had nothing to do with the deaths,
> apart from the fact that the hospitals should have been air conditioned,
> too.
the hospitals sent people home to die -- the health system did not gear
up when they saw the impact of the heat to identify and secure
vulnerable people -- it was a failure in the health system -- but it is
understandable given the novelty of the situation
Dec 3rd 2003 | 7:39 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Jenn writes:
> the hospitals sent people home to die
When?
The hospitals were just as hot as the homes; they weren't air
conditioned, either.
You can't help people with hyperthermia if you have no way to keep them
cool.
> ... the health system did not gear up when they saw
> the impact of the heat to identify and secure
> vulnerable people ...
The only way to "secure" those people would be with air conditioning,
which they did not have.
> ... it was a failure in the health system ...
It was--and remains--a failure to understand the correct way to deal
with heat: air conditioning.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> the hospitals sent people home to die
When?
The hospitals were just as hot as the homes; they weren't air
conditioned, either.
You can't help people with hyperthermia if you have no way to keep them
cool.
> ... the health system did not gear up when they saw
> the impact of the heat to identify and secure
> vulnerable people ...
The only way to "secure" those people would be with air conditioning,
which they did not have.
> ... it was a failure in the health system ...
It was--and remains--a failure to understand the correct way to deal
with heat: air conditioning.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 3rd 2003 | 8:02 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:38:45 -0600, Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
>We were in Paris during that time as well and even though we had a 6th
>floor apartment across from a park with lots of cross ventilation, it
>was stifling at night -- the temperature didn't get below about 85 F
>several nights
>we spent a lot of our daytime at the Louvre which is nice and chilly
We were in France's Berry Region, 40 miles south of the Loire between
the Indre and Cher rivers...the heat began in earnest on the 2nd of
August, everyday above 95 until the end of the week when it reached
107-109 daily. It stayed above 90 at night. Many young families had
left on their typical vacation and thus left the old people behind.
Many died of dehydration and heat stroke, the sirens ran night and day
as people were found passed out or mort. It was terrible to witness.
A single person who didn't answer their door became 4 more as firemen
knocked on adjacent doors. Awful. Fans were passed out but too late in
some cases. People ame home in late August to the dead in their homes.
Surprise! Awful, just awful.
H
Retired Teacher, Terrible Mechanic, Worse Plumber!
LPFM Page: http://home.att.net/~optcamel/fmradio.htm
>We were in Paris during that time as well and even though we had a 6th
>floor apartment across from a park with lots of cross ventilation, it
>was stifling at night -- the temperature didn't get below about 85 F
>several nights
>we spent a lot of our daytime at the Louvre which is nice and chilly
We were in France's Berry Region, 40 miles south of the Loire between
the Indre and Cher rivers...the heat began in earnest on the 2nd of
August, everyday above 95 until the end of the week when it reached
107-109 daily. It stayed above 90 at night. Many young families had
left on their typical vacation and thus left the old people behind.
Many died of dehydration and heat stroke, the sirens ran night and day
as people were found passed out or mort. It was terrible to witness.
A single person who didn't answer their door became 4 more as firemen
knocked on adjacent doors. Awful. Fans were passed out but too late in
some cases. People ame home in late August to the dead in their homes.
Surprise! Awful, just awful.
H
Retired Teacher, Terrible Mechanic, Worse Plumber!
LPFM Page: http://home.att.net/~optcamel/fmradio.htm
Dec 3rd 2003 | 8:03 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn writes:
>
> > the hospitals sent people home to die
>
> When?
>
> The hospitals were just as hot as the homes; they weren't air
> conditioned, either.
>
> You can't help people with hyperthermia if you have no way to keep them
> cool.
IV fluids and O2 will help. Cases should be treated like all triage,
allocating A/C for those most in need. This can't be determined when
they are sent home.
I'm sure they are preparing far better for this with the particular
experience they gained.
jay
Wed, Dec 3, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
> > ... the health system did not gear up when they saw
> > the impact of the heat to identify and secure
> > vulnerable people ...
>
> The only way to "secure" those people would be with air conditioning,
> which they did not have.
>
> > ... it was a failure in the health system ...
>
> It was--and remains--a failure to understand the correct way to deal
> with heat: air conditioning.
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn writes:
>
> > the hospitals sent people home to die
>
> When?
>
> The hospitals were just as hot as the homes; they weren't air
> conditioned, either.
>
> You can't help people with hyperthermia if you have no way to keep them
> cool.
IV fluids and O2 will help. Cases should be treated like all triage,
allocating A/C for those most in need. This can't be determined when
they are sent home.
I'm sure they are preparing far better for this with the particular
experience they gained.
jay
Wed, Dec 3, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
> > ... the health system did not gear up when they saw
> > the impact of the heat to identify and secure
> > vulnerable people ...
>
> The only way to "secure" those people would be with air conditioning,
> which they did not have.
>
> > ... it was a failure in the health system ...
>
> It was--and remains--a failure to understand the correct way to deal
> with heat: air conditioning.
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Dec 3rd 2003 | 9:50 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn writes:
>
> > the hospitals sent people home to die
>
> When?
>
> The hospitals were just as hot as the homes; they weren't air
> conditioned, either.
>
> You can't help people with hyperthermia if you have no way to keep them
> cool.
There were many public buildings with air conditioning e.g. the Louvre
-- in a health emergency you commandeer those spaces [there were huge
malls with lots of space that were relatively cool as well] And
dehydration is met by rehydrating people and using fans -- not sending
them home
>
> > ... the health system did not gear up when they saw
> > the impact of the heat to identify and secure
> > vulnerable people ...
>
> The only way to "secure" those people would be with air conditioning,
> which they did not have.
there was time to obtain and cool large spaces e.g. schools etc if it
had been recognized and treated as a public health emergency
>
> > ... it was a failure in the health system ...
>
> It was--and remains--a failure to understand the correct way to deal
> with heat: air conditioning.
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn writes:
>
> > the hospitals sent people home to die
>
> When?
>
> The hospitals were just as hot as the homes; they weren't air
> conditioned, either.
>
> You can't help people with hyperthermia if you have no way to keep them
> cool.
There were many public buildings with air conditioning e.g. the Louvre
-- in a health emergency you commandeer those spaces [there were huge
malls with lots of space that were relatively cool as well] And
dehydration is met by rehydrating people and using fans -- not sending
them home
>
> > ... the health system did not gear up when they saw
> > the impact of the heat to identify and secure
> > vulnerable people ...
>
> The only way to "secure" those people would be with air conditioning,
> which they did not have.
there was time to obtain and cool large spaces e.g. schools etc if it
had been recognized and treated as a public health emergency
>
> > ... it was a failure in the health system ...
>
> It was--and remains--a failure to understand the correct way to deal
> with heat: air conditioning.
Dec 3rd 2003 | 11:33 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Go Fig writes:
> IV fluids and O2 will help.
Not once the patient's normal perspiration and heat regulation have
stopped. The only option is direct cooling. Otherwise his core
temperature will rise until he dies.
> Cases should be treated like all triage, allocating A/C
> for those most in need. This can't be determined when
> they are sent home.
There wasn't any A/C to allocate. The hospitals are not air
conditioned. In many rooms, the temperature was around 46° C, and some
buildings had sealed windows.
> I'm sure they are preparing far better for this with
> the particular experience they gained.
I suspect they've changed nothing at all.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> IV fluids and O2 will help.
Not once the patient's normal perspiration and heat regulation have
stopped. The only option is direct cooling. Otherwise his core
temperature will rise until he dies.
> Cases should be treated like all triage, allocating A/C
> for those most in need. This can't be determined when
> they are sent home.
There wasn't any A/C to allocate. The hospitals are not air
conditioned. In many rooms, the temperature was around 46° C, and some
buildings had sealed windows.
> I'm sure they are preparing far better for this with
> the particular experience they gained.
I suspect they've changed nothing at all.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 3rd 2003 | 11:36 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Jenn writes:
> There were many public buildings with air conditioning
> e.g. the Louvre ...
There are relatively few buildings in Paris with air conditioning.
In any case, you cannot move the population of a hospital to another
building just to profit from the air conditioning, because you need the
equipment and supplies that are available only in the hospital as well.
You must air-condition the hospital.
> ... in a health emergency you commandeer those spaces ...
You do?
In any case, see above.
> [there were huge malls with lots of space that were
> relatively cool as well]
Huge malls are filled with stores, not ICU beds. And they aren't all
air-conditioned, either.
> And dehydration is met by rehydrating people and using
> fans -- not sending them home
Rehydration won't fix hyperthermia; often the patient has stopped
perspiring, anyway. You must cool the patient directly.
> there was time to obtain and cool large spaces e.g.
> schools etc if it had been recognized and treated
> as a public health emergency
No, there was not. There was no air-conditioning equipment available to
provide such cooling.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> There were many public buildings with air conditioning
> e.g. the Louvre ...
There are relatively few buildings in Paris with air conditioning.
In any case, you cannot move the population of a hospital to another
building just to profit from the air conditioning, because you need the
equipment and supplies that are available only in the hospital as well.
You must air-condition the hospital.
> ... in a health emergency you commandeer those spaces ...
You do?
In any case, see above.
> [there were huge malls with lots of space that were
> relatively cool as well]
Huge malls are filled with stores, not ICU beds. And they aren't all
air-conditioned, either.
> And dehydration is met by rehydrating people and using
> fans -- not sending them home
Rehydration won't fix hyperthermia; often the patient has stopped
perspiring, anyway. You must cool the patient directly.
> there was time to obtain and cool large spaces e.g.
> schools etc if it had been recognized and treated
> as a public health emergency
No, there was not. There was no air-conditioning equipment available to
provide such cooling.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 3rd 2003 | 11:54 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > IV fluids and O2 will help.
>
> Not once the patient's normal perspiration and heat regulation have
> stopped. The only option is direct cooling. Otherwise his core
> temperature will rise until he dies.
Yes, when they are dead you can't bring them back. Short of that IV and
O2 will greatly reduce death rate. But, their core temps must be
brought down ASAP.
>
> > Cases should be treated like all triage, allocating A/C
> > for those most in need. This can't be determined when
> > they are sent home.
>
> There wasn't any A/C to allocate. The hospitals are not air
> conditioned. In many rooms, the temperature was around 46° C, and some
> buildings had sealed windows.
>
> > I'm sure they are preparing far better for this with
> > the particular experience they gained.
>
> I suspect they've changed nothing at all.
I bet many of the things Jenn suggested have been implemented, seize
buildings, tourist couches... aren't there any cellars that naturally
maintain temps ?
I doubt we will ever see those types of numbers again in France, in the
U.S., heat remains the big killer for natural disasters.
Europe is largely free of catastrophic natural disasters, The U.S. is
subject to all of them.
jay
Wed, Dec 3, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > IV fluids and O2 will help.
>
> Not once the patient's normal perspiration and heat regulation have
> stopped. The only option is direct cooling. Otherwise his core
> temperature will rise until he dies.
Yes, when they are dead you can't bring them back. Short of that IV and
O2 will greatly reduce death rate. But, their core temps must be
brought down ASAP.
>
> > Cases should be treated like all triage, allocating A/C
> > for those most in need. This can't be determined when
> > they are sent home.
>
> There wasn't any A/C to allocate. The hospitals are not air
> conditioned. In many rooms, the temperature was around 46° C, and some
> buildings had sealed windows.
>
> > I'm sure they are preparing far better for this with
> > the particular experience they gained.
>
> I suspect they've changed nothing at all.
I bet many of the things Jenn suggested have been implemented, seize
buildings, tourist couches... aren't there any cellars that naturally
maintain temps ?
I doubt we will ever see those types of numbers again in France, in the
U.S., heat remains the big killer for natural disasters.
Europe is largely free of catastrophic natural disasters, The U.S. is
subject to all of them.
jay
Wed, Dec 3, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Dec 3rd 2003 | 12:55 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Um ... do you still have your liver?
Just kidding. Glad it worked out so well for you. Another reminder
that the U.S. has one of the worst health care DELIVERY systems in the
industrialized world. Even though it is near the top technologically,
there are many who cannot obtain the advantages of that
technology......
Just kidding. Glad it worked out so well for you. Another reminder
that the U.S. has one of the worst health care DELIVERY systems in the
industrialized world. Even though it is near the top technologically,
there are many who cannot obtain the advantages of that
technology......
Dec 3rd 2003 | 1:37 pm
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Go Fig writes:
> Short of that IV and O2 will greatly reduce death rate.
Not if you do not cool them at the same time. And you need a cool place
to do that.
> I bet many of the things Jenn suggested have been
> implemented, seize buildings, tourist couches ...
Seizing buildings isn't as legally easy as you seem to think. Nor would
it solve the problem.
> ... aren't there any cellars that naturally maintain temps ?
Cellars, like shopping malls, are not equipped as hospitals are.
> I doubt we will ever see those types of numbers again
> in France ...
I think it's the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended). The world is
getting warmer.
> Europe is largely free of catastrophic natural disasters,
> The U.S. is subject to all of them.
True. One of the nice things about Paris is that it has virtually no
disadvantages, apart from a fairly high cost of living.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Short of that IV and O2 will greatly reduce death rate.
Not if you do not cool them at the same time. And you need a cool place
to do that.
> I bet many of the things Jenn suggested have been
> implemented, seize buildings, tourist couches ...
Seizing buildings isn't as legally easy as you seem to think. Nor would
it solve the problem.
> ... aren't there any cellars that naturally maintain temps ?
Cellars, like shopping malls, are not equipped as hospitals are.
> I doubt we will ever see those types of numbers again
> in France ...
I think it's the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended). The world is
getting warmer.
> Europe is largely free of catastrophic natural disasters,
> The U.S. is subject to all of them.
True. One of the nice things about Paris is that it has virtually no
disadvantages, apart from a fairly high cost of living.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 4th 2003 | 4:45 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn writes:
>
> > There were many public buildings with air conditioning
> > e.g. the Louvre ...
>
> There are relatively few buildings in Paris with air conditioning.
>
> In any case, you cannot move the population of a hospital to another
> building just to profit from the air conditioning, because you need the
> equipment and supplies that are available only in the hospital as well.
> You must air-condition the hospital.
you could have taken elderly people to spend the day in an air
conditioned space so they wouldn't need to be hospitalized
>
> > ... in a health emergency you commandeer those spaces ...
>
> You do?
>
> In any case, see above.
>
> > [there were huge malls with lots of space that were
> > relatively cool as well]
>
> Huge malls are filled with stores, not ICU beds. And they aren't all
> air-conditioned, either.
I spent lots of time finding cool places in August in Paris -- there
were many relatively empty malls, museums etc which could have been used
for elderly people stuck in hot apartments if someone had recognized and
organized NO ONE is suggesting moving hospitalized patients there but
you. -
>
> > And dehydration is met by rehydrating people and using
> > fans -- not sending them home
>
> Rehydration won't fix hyperthermia; often the patient has stopped
> perspiring, anyway. You must cool the patient directly.
>
> > there was time to obtain and cool large spaces e.g.
> > schools etc if it had been recognized and treated
> > as a public health emergency
>
> No, there was not. There was no air-conditioning equipment available to
> provide such cooling.
great 'can do' attitude of the French, eh -- when you have an emergency
that stretches over a couple of weeks, a sensible government gets such
equipment and allocates it to save lives -- this was a failure of
imagination not a failure of 'stuff'
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn writes:
>
> > There were many public buildings with air conditioning
> > e.g. the Louvre ...
>
> There are relatively few buildings in Paris with air conditioning.
>
> In any case, you cannot move the population of a hospital to another
> building just to profit from the air conditioning, because you need the
> equipment and supplies that are available only in the hospital as well.
> You must air-condition the hospital.
you could have taken elderly people to spend the day in an air
conditioned space so they wouldn't need to be hospitalized
>
> > ... in a health emergency you commandeer those spaces ...
>
> You do?
>
> In any case, see above.
>
> > [there were huge malls with lots of space that were
> > relatively cool as well]
>
> Huge malls are filled with stores, not ICU beds. And they aren't all
> air-conditioned, either.
I spent lots of time finding cool places in August in Paris -- there
were many relatively empty malls, museums etc which could have been used
for elderly people stuck in hot apartments if someone had recognized and
organized NO ONE is suggesting moving hospitalized patients there but
you. -
>
> > And dehydration is met by rehydrating people and using
> > fans -- not sending them home
>
> Rehydration won't fix hyperthermia; often the patient has stopped
> perspiring, anyway. You must cool the patient directly.
>
> > there was time to obtain and cool large spaces e.g.
> > schools etc if it had been recognized and treated
> > as a public health emergency
>
> No, there was not. There was no air-conditioning equipment available to
> provide such cooling.
great 'can do' attitude of the French, eh -- when you have an emergency
that stretches over a couple of weeks, a sensible government gets such
equipment and allocates it to save lives -- this was a failure of
imagination not a failure of 'stuff'
Dec 4th 2003 | 4:49 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
Jenn writes:
> you could have taken elderly people to spend the day in an air
> conditioned space so they wouldn't need to be hospitalized
There aren't any air-conditioned spaces available. Additionally, just
taking them out for a bit won't help; they must _live_ in a space with
tolerable temperatures, and their normal living quarters didn't qualify.
> I spent lots of time finding cool places in August in Paris -- there
> were many relatively empty malls, museums etc which could have been used
> for elderly people stuck in hot apartments if someone had recognized and
> organized NO ONE is suggesting moving hospitalized patients there but
> you.
If they are not suffering from hyperthermia, they don't need special
accommodations at all. You cannot move the entire elderly population
into the malls, so you must only move those suffering from hyperthermia.
But people suffering from hyperthermia require advanced medical care,
not just a trip to the mall.
> great 'can do' attitude of the French, eh -- when you have an emergency
> that stretches over a couple of weeks, a sensible government gets such
> equipment and allocates it to save lives ...
I guess I'm not making myself clear: There was no equipment. It cannot
be built in fifteen minutes if it doesn't already exist. There just
wasn't that much air conditioning available, period, and it could not be
instantly built for the occasion.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> you could have taken elderly people to spend the day in an air
> conditioned space so they wouldn't need to be hospitalized
There aren't any air-conditioned spaces available. Additionally, just
taking them out for a bit won't help; they must _live_ in a space with
tolerable temperatures, and their normal living quarters didn't qualify.
> I spent lots of time finding cool places in August in Paris -- there
> were many relatively empty malls, museums etc which could have been used
> for elderly people stuck in hot apartments if someone had recognized and
> organized NO ONE is suggesting moving hospitalized patients there but
> you.
If they are not suffering from hyperthermia, they don't need special
accommodations at all. You cannot move the entire elderly population
into the malls, so you must only move those suffering from hyperthermia.
But people suffering from hyperthermia require advanced medical care,
not just a trip to the mall.
> great 'can do' attitude of the French, eh -- when you have an emergency
> that stretches over a couple of weeks, a sensible government gets such
> equipment and allocates it to save lives ...
I guess I'm not making myself clear: There was no equipment. It cannot
be built in fifteen minutes if it doesn't already exist. There just
wasn't that much air conditioning available, period, and it could not be
instantly built for the occasion.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Dec 4th 2003 | 10:16 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
[email protected] (Terryo) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> Um ... do you still have your liver?
>
> Just kidding. Glad it worked out so well for you. Another reminder
> that the U.S. has one of the worst health care DELIVERY systems in the
> industrialized world. Even though it is near the top technologically,
> there are many who cannot obtain the advantages of that
> technology......
Your pontification reeks of inconsistency. We are at the "top"
technologically
but we have the "worst" delivery????
Wishful thinking on your part. Many wealthy European consider their
"national"
health care as the provider of last resort and those that can afford
it seek private care. Many of the wealthiest come here and pay for the
service.
In most states state laws make it illegal for hospitals to refuse care
for the indigents and uninsured. The unisured and poor still have
access to the best health care system in the world. Many Europeans are
in denial of this fact.
> Um ... do you still have your liver?
>
> Just kidding. Glad it worked out so well for you. Another reminder
> that the U.S. has one of the worst health care DELIVERY systems in the
> industrialized world. Even though it is near the top technologically,
> there are many who cannot obtain the advantages of that
> technology......
Your pontification reeks of inconsistency. We are at the "top"
technologically
but we have the "worst" delivery????
Wishful thinking on your part. Many wealthy European consider their
"national"
health care as the provider of last resort and those that can afford
it seek private care. Many of the wealthiest come here and pay for the
service.
In most states state laws make it illegal for hospitals to refuse care
for the indigents and uninsured. The unisured and poor still have
access to the best health care system in the world. Many Europeans are
in denial of this fact.
Dec 4th 2003 | 10:50 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
"PJ O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Terryo) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > Um ... do you still have your liver?
> >
> > Just kidding. Glad it worked out so well for you. Another reminder
> > that the U.S. has one of the worst health care DELIVERY systems in the
> > industrialized world. Even though it is near the top technologically,
> > there are many who cannot obtain the advantages of that
> > technology......
> Your pontification reeks of inconsistency. We are at the "top"
> technologically
> but we have the "worst" delivery????
> Wishful thinking on your part. Many wealthy European consider their
> "national"
> health care as the provider of last resort and those that can afford
> it seek private care. Many of the wealthiest come here and pay for the
> service.
> In most states state laws make it illegal for hospitals to refuse care
> for the indigents and uninsured. The unisured and poor still have
> access to the best health care system in the world. Many Europeans are
> in denial of this fact.
Thats find for the indigent but not necessarily for the uninsured.
Yes they have to treat for lfe threatening conditions BUT
1) If you have any assets they will be coming looking for payment,
I know of several cases of medical bankruptcy among US
acquaintances.
2) They wont be forthcoming with treatment that improves quality
of life. I had friend in the British Army who was assigned to a US
public hospital to gain some experience in treating gunshot wounds
nand he recalled several patients who had limb amputations as a
resuly of trauma but were not fitted with prosthetics as they had
no insurance.
One of the points many USA'ians are in denial about is that
with all its faults most Europeans value their 'socialist' health
systems and even governments as right wing as that of Thatcher
dared not touch it due to voter backlash.
Even those with private insurance, such as myself, use the
NHS system for primary care. The major benefits of UK
private care tend to be faster access to non critical treatment
and better quallity accomodation in hospital.
Keith
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Terryo) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > Um ... do you still have your liver?
> >
> > Just kidding. Glad it worked out so well for you. Another reminder
> > that the U.S. has one of the worst health care DELIVERY systems in the
> > industrialized world. Even though it is near the top technologically,
> > there are many who cannot obtain the advantages of that
> > technology......
> Your pontification reeks of inconsistency. We are at the "top"
> technologically
> but we have the "worst" delivery????
> Wishful thinking on your part. Many wealthy European consider their
> "national"
> health care as the provider of last resort and those that can afford
> it seek private care. Many of the wealthiest come here and pay for the
> service.
> In most states state laws make it illegal for hospitals to refuse care
> for the indigents and uninsured. The unisured and poor still have
> access to the best health care system in the world. Many Europeans are
> in denial of this fact.
Thats find for the indigent but not necessarily for the uninsured.
Yes they have to treat for lfe threatening conditions BUT
1) If you have any assets they will be coming looking for payment,
I know of several cases of medical bankruptcy among US
acquaintances.
2) They wont be forthcoming with treatment that improves quality
of life. I had friend in the British Army who was assigned to a US
public hospital to gain some experience in treating gunshot wounds
nand he recalled several patients who had limb amputations as a
resuly of trauma but were not fitted with prosthetics as they had
no insurance.
One of the points many USA'ians are in denial about is that
with all its faults most Europeans value their 'socialist' health
systems and even governments as right wing as that of Thatcher
dared not touch it due to voter backlash.
Even those with private insurance, such as myself, use the
NHS system for primary care. The major benefits of UK
private care tend to be faster access to non critical treatment
and better quallity accomodation in hospital.
Keith
Dec 4th 2003 | 10:52 pm
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: medical tratment in paris
PJ O'Donovan writes:
> Your pontification reeks of inconsistency. We are at the "top"
> technologically but we have the "worst" delivery????
There is no inconsistency. The United States has the best medical
technology overall, but it also has some of the most skewed availability
of that technology. The best technology is available only to those who
can pay for it, and it is so expensive that almost nobody in the U.S.
can pay for it. At the other extreme, people with no money in the U.S.
have virtually no access to health care at all.
> Wishful thinking on your part. Many wealthy European consider their
> "national" health care as the provider of last resort ...
Which ones?
> In most states state laws make it illegal for hospitals to refuse care
> for the indigents and uninsured. The unisured and poor still have
> access to the best health care system in the world. Many Europeans are
> in denial of this fact.
There aren't many differences in quality between public health care in
the U.S. (such as it is) and public health care in Europe.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Your pontification reeks of inconsistency. We are at the "top"
> technologically but we have the "worst" delivery????
There is no inconsistency. The United States has the best medical
technology overall, but it also has some of the most skewed availability
of that technology. The best technology is available only to those who
can pay for it, and it is so expensive that almost nobody in the U.S.
can pay for it. At the other extreme, people with no money in the U.S.
have virtually no access to health care at all.
> Wishful thinking on your part. Many wealthy European consider their
> "national" health care as the provider of last resort ...
Which ones?
> In most states state laws make it illegal for hospitals to refuse care
> for the indigents and uninsured. The unisured and poor still have
> access to the best health care system in the world. Many Europeans are
> in denial of this fact.
There aren't many differences in quality between public health care in
the U.S. (such as it is) and public health care in Europe.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
