On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:48:25 GMT, devil <[email protected]> wrote:



    >> why would they have a passport to visit mexico?
    >>
    >> a US National can visit Canada, Mexico, Jamaica and a host of other
    >> countries passport free.
    >But can they go back to the US? :-)

exactly my thought :-)

You need both a proof of citizenship, I'm not sure a voters registration
would do, and identification -- that's where the drivers license comes
in. A passport will do for both. That's what they require because
that's what the feds want to let you back.

randee wrote:
    > You don't need a passport, but it will work best. You do need some form
    > of proof of US citizenship to enter Canada; a voter registration would
    > work, but not a driver's license. Don't know about Mexico as I haven't
    > been there in over 20 years and have no plans to go; but I would assume
    > it would be the same as Canada.
    > wf.

    > Anonymouse wrote:
    >>Hi,
    >>why would they have a passport to visit mexico?
    >>a US National can visit Canada, Mexico, Jamaica and a host of other
    >>countries passport free.

"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
    > Bjorn Olsson wrote:
    >
    > news:[email protected] om...
    > > "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
    > > > A number of Russians visit Turkey for goods trading purposes.
    > >
    > > And?
    >
    >
    > They are not there to see the sights, they are there to pick up cheap goods
    > for re - sale back home.

Look, I've been to Turkey. Some beach resorts are absolutely swarming
with Russians who come there for exactly the same reasons as other
vacationers: to swim, sunbathe, eat, drink, dance, and generally enjoy
themselves, whilst spending a good deal of money.

There may also be some other Russians who come to Turkey to buy goods
for re-sale back home. And? What's yer friggin' point?

Björn

A voter registration works. I've been traveling to Canada for 45 years
now, with a gap from about 1994 to 1999. Needless to say, the last time
I went to Canada in 1994, they just asked 'Where ya born?' That was it,
go on through, same as the prior 35 years. Well about 5 years ago I
appeared at the airport to head to Vancouver and they asked for proof of
US citizenship. Needless to say I had none, so back home we went.
After much searching I found my voter registration, although not my
passport. We went down the next day with that and they were happy with
the voter registration. The airline just rescheduled us for the same
flight the next day so there weren't any hassles in that department.
And yes, I've been getting "I told you so!" ever since..................
--
wf.

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:
    >
    > You need both a proof of citizenship, I'm not sure a voters registration
    > would do, and identification -- that's where the drivers license comes
    > in. A passport will do for both. That's what they require because
    > that's what the feds want to let you back.
    >
    > randee wrote:
    > > You don't need a passport, but it will work best. You do need some form
    > > of proof of US citizenship to enter Canada; a voter registration would
    > > work, but not a driver's license. Don't know about Mexico as I haven't
    > > been there in over 20 years and have no plans to go; but I would assume
    > > it would be the same as Canada.
    > > wf.
    >
    > > Anonymouse wrote:
    > >>Hi,
    > >>why would they have a passport to visit mexico?
    > >>a US National can visit Canada, Mexico, Jamaica and a host of other
    > >>countries passport free.

Bjorn Olsson wrote:

    > "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
    > > Bjorn Olsson wrote:
    > >
    > > news:[email protected] om...
    > > > "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
    > > > > A number of Russians visit Turkey for goods trading purposes.
    > > >
    > > > And?
    > >
    > >
    > > They are not there to see the sights, they are there to pick up cheap
goods
    > > for re - sale back home.
    > Look, I've been to Turkey. Some beach resorts are absolutely swarming
    > with Russians who come there for exactly the same reasons as other
    > vacationers: to swim, sunbathe, eat, drink, dance, and generally enjoy
    > themselves, whilst spending a good deal of money.
    > There may also be some other Russians who come to Turkey to buy goods
    > for re-sale back home. And? What's yer friggin' point?


I am simply stating a fact.

--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
    > Bjorn Olsson wrote:
    >
    > > "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
    > > > Bjorn Olsson wrote:
    > > >
    > > > news:[email protected] om...
    > > > > "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
    > > > > > A number of Russians visit Turkey for goods trading purposes.
    > > > >
    > > > > And?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > They are not there to see the sights, they are there to pick up cheap
    > goods
    > > > for re - sale back home.
    > >
    > > Look, I've been to Turkey. Some beach resorts are absolutely swarming
    > > with Russians who come there for exactly the same reasons as other
    > > vacationers: to swim, sunbathe, eat, drink, dance, and generally enjoy
    > > themselves, whilst spending a good deal of money.
    > >
    > > There may also be some other Russians who come to Turkey to buy goods
    > > for re-sale back home. And? What's yer friggin' point?
    >
    >
    > I am simply stating a fact.

Having no purpose with doing so, of course..

Bjorn

    > Look, I've been to Turkey. Some beach resorts are absolutely swarming
    > with Russians who come there for exactly the same reasons as other
    > vacationers: to swim, sunbathe, eat, drink, dance, and generally enjoy
    > themselves, whilst spending a good deal of money.

I've never been to a Turkish beach resort popular with foreigners so
that didn't occur to me. I've never yet met a Russian doing independent
travel (and on this last trip I didn't meet any Americans, Canadians or
Germans either, which is perhaps a bit more surprising). Maybe the
Soviet-era cultural legacy of mass holidays for the proletariat lives
on to some extent?

From the way I look and dress, I"m a generic northern European.
I've often had Turks guess I was German; sometimes French, Italian
or Georgian; but only once that I was Russian. So it isn't just
that I haven't met Russians in places I've been, the Turks hadn't
either.

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

bogus address wrote:

    > I've never been to a Turkish beach resort popular with foreigners so
    > that didn't occur to me. I've never yet met a Russian doing independent
    > travel (and on this last trip I didn't meet any Americans, Canadians or
    > Germans either, which is perhaps a bit more surprising). Maybe the
    > Soviet-era cultural legacy of mass holidays for the proletariat lives
    > on to some extent?


It's the cheapest way for most Russians to travel - cheap all - inclusive
holidays.

--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä news:[email protected] link.net...
    > bogus address wrote:
    > > I've never been to a Turkish beach resort popular with foreigners so
    > > that didn't occur to me. I've never yet met a Russian doing independent
    > > travel (and on this last trip I didn't meet any Americans, Canadians or
    > > Germans either, which is perhaps a bit more surprising). Maybe the
    > > Soviet-era cultural legacy of mass holidays for the proletariat lives
    > > on to some extent?
    > It's the cheapest way for most Russians to travel - cheap all - inclusive
    > holidays.
Truly the segment of wealthy Russians is narrow. Some of them spend money in
Finland during each day more than you earn in your entire lifetime though.

[email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > [email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > > [email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    >
    > > > > then register the thing (the hotel will do this, for more
    > > > > money),
    > > >
    > > > They simply keep your passport for half a day, and then return it to
    > > > you. How can that be characterized as "complicated"? And they don't
    > > > necessarily charge for the service.

That depends wheter or not it is the first registratition of the visa
or the stamp you need to have on your migration card in every new city
you visit (not nececary for business visa, necesary for tourist visa).
The first naturualy can take that amount of time since they take your
papers out of the house, the last type of registraion takes 1 minut,
as the reception clerk just put a stamp on your migration card.

In either case it is a good idea to say you need your passport back
fast to change money, to hurry up the process.

Jan

[email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > [email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > > [email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    >
    > > > > then register the thing (the hotel will do this, for more
    > > > > money),
    > > >
    > > > They simply keep your passport for half a day, and then return it to
    > > > you. How can that be characterized as "complicated"? And they don't
    > > > necessarily charge for the service.
    > >
    > > It is usual they charge for registration, generally in the region of
    > > one nights accomodation.
    >
    > Now, I rarely stay in hotels, but as far as I remember, the charges I
    > have come across were between zero and two dollars. You're telling me
    > they would charge up to a hundred dollars?! Can you provide a concrete
    > example of this?

When did I say they would charge up to $100? I didn't did I.

    > > > > oh, and oh course make sure you enter any exit on the precise
    > > > > days,
    > > >
    > > > No, you can enter late and exit early. In other words, you can add
    > > > extra days for the eventuality of changed plans. I always do this.
    > >
    > > I do not believe you. Can you provide a cite that says this is policy?
    >
    > No, but I can promise you that I've done this maybe 10 times or so.

Perhaps it works in practice, but I was advised differently.

    > > > > plus re-registering it in each city you go to.
    > > >
    > > > I wouldn't bother.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Then you would be exposing yourself to potential problems. It IS a
    > > requirement.
    >
    > Are you sure?

I am sure that when going to a country like Russia for the first time,
you are wise to do whatever you are advised to do.

    > > You are hardly making a solid case for the visa process
    > > being straightforward, unless you are recommending cutting some
    > > corners. I don't know many people prepared to take risks like that in
    > > a country like Russia.
    > >
    > > > > Also making sure
    > > > > you don't lose any of the supporting documents.
    > > > >
    > > > > Yes, it IS that complicated. Perhaps not compared to North Korea, but
    > > > > where else is more difficult in Europe? Belarus?
    > > >
    > > > Depends on your nationality. You should see how complicated it is for
    > > > Russians to visit the EU, for example.
    > >
    > > Given that the overwhelming majority of people reading this are
    > > western, this is the point of view I am taking.
    >
    > How narrow-minded.

It's narrow minded to acknowledge that almost all posters here are
from western countries? When you try to insult someone, it helps if
you use the correct insult.

    > > > > Been there recently?
    > > >
    > > > Half a year ago. I usually go twice a year, but had to skip this
    > > > summer due to illness in the family. I'll be going again by christmas
    > > > time, hopefully.
    > >
    > > I was there 2 months ago, and police checks were VERY common. Police
    > > and military are outside many metro stations checking peoples papers.
    >
    > Did they check yours?

Somehow they did not. They were always checking someone else's when I
walked in. I was 'moved along' a couple of times though.

    > > Not a pleasant atmosphere.
    > >
    > > > > Vigilance is going through the roof at the
    > > > > moment.
    > > >
    > > > I doubt that western visitors are affected.
    > >
    > > They most certainly are.
    >
    > I doubt it.

It's pretty hard not to notice the intimidating atmosphere of Moscow.
And please note that as you go to Moscow so regularly, possibly it is
a very different place to that experienced by a tourist. Having
friends in a country like Russia would make it a whole lot easier.

    > > > > > > giving the place an appropriate big-brother feel. Try sitting down
    > > > > > > somewhere outside a station, and watch them hassle passers-by.
    > > > > > > Eventually they will tell you to move on too. If you have dark skin,
    > > > > > > you can expect them to check you papers twice as much. Then there is
    > > > > > > the incredibly sad sight of pensioners begging for money.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > There's not so many, considering the size of the city. English,
    > > > > > German, etc, major cities have more beggars.
    > > > >
    > > > > I have never seen an elderly person begging in London or Berlin. They
    > > > > are in abundance in Moscow.
    > > >
    > > > I have never seen a teenager begging in Russia. They are in abundance
    > > > in London or Berlin.
    > >
    > > This comparison is flawed, and silly.
    >
    > Why? If the sight of begging people upsets you so much that you find
    > it a reason not to visit Moscow, how can you then visit London or
    > Berlin?

*sigh*

The site of ELDERLY (do I have to repeat this?) people begging bothers
me much more.

    > > > > > > In fact, it
    > > > > > > seems like 'spasiba' is completely disused by the local.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > They don't waste time on meaningless phrases. Once you get used to
    > > > > > that, you'll notice that they are as helpful/unhelpful as in most
    > > > > > other places.
    > > > >
    > > > > Would it kill a Muscovite to smile once in a while?
    > > >
    > > > It is not their custom to fake smiles, as we do. Spend time with
    > > > Muscovite friends, on the other hand, and you'll see all the smiles
    > > > you could ask for.
    > >
    > > As I said, it is NOT tourist friendly.
    >
    > So smiles=friendliness, even if faked. I see.

I did not say that (along with all the other stuff you seem to have
imagined I said). YOU were the one who used the word 'fake'. Is their
something wrong with your brain, or is it that your english hinders
your comprehension?
---
DFM

    >>It would behoove you gloomy Swedes to holiday in happier places like Italy
    >>and Spain or Florida or Australia - why go to some depressing place like
    >>Russia?
    >
    >
    > I've been to all of those places. Out of the five, Florida (Orlando)
    > was the only one I found depressing. I have never in my life seen so
    > much fat and stupidity in one place.

Hi,

Orlando (disney etc) is pretty weird... a place I'd avoid myself.

the best beaches to me in florida are the undeveloped ones.... so if
you're adventurous just fly into tampa, get a car and decide north or
south....

--
To live outside the law, you must be honest...
(Absolutely Sweet Marie - Blonde on Blonde - 1966)

I actually cross a border every day to go to work... about like driving
from heerlen to aachen.

[email protected] wrote:

    > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:48:25 GMT, devil <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>>why would they have a passport to visit mexico?
    >>>a US National can visit Canada, Mexico, Jamaica and a host of other
    >>>countries passport free.
    >>But can they go back to the US? :-)
    >
    >
    > exactly my thought :-)

--
To live outside the law, you must be honest...
(Absolutely Sweet Marie - Blonde on Blonde - 1966)

Try contacting Mobility International USA (MIUSA) in Eugene, Oregon.
They specialize in travel issues for persons with disabilities and
likely have info on Russia. Dan

"Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52>...
    > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and St.
    > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but have
    > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to curb
    > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Felice

[email protected] (Deep Frayed Morgues) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > [email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > > [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > > > > [email protected] (Deep Flawed Muslim) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    >
    > > > > > then register the thing (the hotel will do this, for more
    > > > > > money),
    > > > >
    > > > > They simply keep your passport for half a day, and then return it to
    > > > > you. How can that be characterized as "complicated"? And they don't
    > > > > necessarily charge for the service.
    > > >
    > > > It is usual they charge for registration, generally in the region of
    > > > one nights accomodation.
    > >
    > > Now, I rarely stay in hotels, but as far as I remember, the charges I
    > > have come across were between zero and two dollars. You're telling me
    > > they would charge up to a hundred dollars?! Can you provide a concrete
    > > example of this?
    >
    > When did I say they would charge up to $100? I didn't did I.
    >
If you paid 100$ you were probably cheated. First I have always been
charged in rubles (it do happen you get prices in Russia in dollars,
but officially it is forbidden). Second I agree that the eqivalent to
0-3$ is about what is normally charged in Rubles. If you want
registation without living there, they likely charge more.

    > > > > > oh, and oh course make sure you enter any exit on the precise
    > > > > > days,
    > > > >
    > > > > No, you can enter late and exit early. In other words, you can add
    > > > > extra days for the eventuality of changed plans. I always do this.
    > > >
    > > > I do not believe you. Can you provide a cite that says this is policy?
    > >
    > > No, but I can promise you that I've done this maybe 10 times or so.
    >
I have done the same thing and I have read and checked this pretty
close. In theory they may have changed the rules recently (after all,
everything changes all the time) but I doubt it.

Don't try the opposite though. Enter to early or leave too late. In
the first case you will probably be denide bording the plane to
Russia. In the second case I know somebdy who was prosoned for days
and then expelled from Russia.

    > > > You are hardly making a solid case for the visa process
    > > > being straightforward, unless you are recommending cutting some
    > > > corners. I don't know many people prepared to take risks like that in
    > > > a country like Russia.
    > > >
    > > > > > Also making sure
    > > > > > you don't lose any of the supporting documents.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Yes, it IS that complicated. Perhaps not compared to North Korea, but
    > > > > > where else is more difficult in Europe? Belarus?
    > > > >
    > > > > Depends on your nationality. You should see how complicated it is for
    > > > > Russians to visit the EU, for example.
    > > >
    > > > Given that the overwhelming majority of people reading this are
    > > > western, this is the point of view I am taking.
    > >
    > > How narrow-minded.
    >
    > It's narrow minded to acknowledge that almost all posters here are
    > from western countries? When you try to insult someone, it helps if
    > you use the correct insult.
    >
It is also narrowminded because even if you asume that you are right,
people probably know that it is bureaucratic without you refreshing
their memories of something they don't like either.

    > > > > > Been there recently?
    > > > >
    > > > > Half a year ago. I usually go twice a year, but had to skip this
    > > > > summer due to illness in the family. I'll be going again by christmas
    > > > > time, hopefully.
    > > >
    > > > I was there 2 months ago, and police checks were VERY common. Police
    > > > and military are outside many metro stations checking peoples papers.
    > >
    > > Did they check yours?
    >
    > Somehow they did not. They were always checking someone else's when I
    > walked in. I was 'moved along' a couple of times though.
    >
The truth probably lies somewhere in between those who says there are
no police checks and those who tell the most facintating rumours about
what they have heard.

Please don't kill each other

best regards,

Jan