Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and St.
Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but have
not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to curb
cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
Thanks.

Felice

"Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52...
    > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and
St.
    > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but have
    > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to curb
    > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > Thanks.
    > Felice
It would not be impossible, just very difficult to move around Moscow and St
Petersburg. During Soviet times disabled were just taken away and the same
mentality prevails. There are no ramps for wheelchairs, curbsides are much
higher than in other places. Public transport is definately a no-go with
wheelchairs or even prams.

tv

"Timo Valtonen" <timo.valtonen@***saunalahti.fi> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52...
    > >
    > > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and
    > St.
    > > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but
have
    > > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to
curb
    > > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > > Thanks.
    > >
    > > Felice
    > >
    > It would not be impossible, just very difficult to move around Moscow and
St
    > Petersburg. During Soviet times disabled were just taken away and the same
    > mentality prevails. There are no ramps for wheelchairs, curbsides are much
    > higher than in other places. Public transport is definately a no-go with
    > wheelchairs or even prams.
    > tv

Thank you so much, Timo. I'm trying to decide whether to take my moderately
handicapped daughter on this tour, and it is information such as yours that
will help us decide if we can do it. BTW, I see the "fi" in your address; if
go without my daughter I will take an additional week before the Russian
week, starting with two nights in Helsinki.

Felice

Felice Friese wrote:
>
    > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and St.
    > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > travel wheelchair?

I was surprised to find any curb cuts in either Moscow or St.
Petersburg, but they do exist. There were far more in Moscow than in St.
Petersburg. (My husband has a visual handicap so I prefer to steer him
to curb cuts and avoid having to say "Step down/up.") Having said that,
mobility issues will create significant problems in most of the sites
in/near Moscow or St. Petersburg, even if nagivating the streets is less
problematic than expected.

The Hermitage is very do-able with a wheelchair, but I think I have just
named the only destination that is handicapped accessible. Every church,
monastery, or palace would necessitate walking up steps ranging from
precipitously steep and narrow to simply "lots of them." We were in both
cities this past summer with a group that included people with mobility
problems and those travelers either struggled mightily or waited outside
with the exception of the Hermitage.

Karen Selwyn

"Karen Selwyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:kJ41d.259529$sh.156315@fed1read06...
    > Felice Friese wrote:
    > >
    > > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and
St.
    > > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > > travel wheelchair?
    > I was surprised to find any curb cuts in either Moscow or St.
    > Petersburg, but they do exist. There were far more in Moscow than in St.
    > Petersburg. (My husband has a visual handicap so I prefer to steer him
    > to curb cuts and avoid having to say "Step down/up.") Having said that,
    > mobility issues will create significant problems in most of the sites
    > in/near Moscow or St. Petersburg, even if nagivating the streets is less
    > problematic than expected.
    > The Hermitage is very do-able with a wheelchair, but I think I have just
    > named the only destination that is handicapped accessible. Every church,
    > monastery, or palace would necessitate walking up steps ranging from
    > precipitously steep and narrow to simply "lots of them." We were in both
    > cities this past summer with a group that included people with mobility
    > problems and those travelers either struggled mightily or waited outside
    > with the exception of the Hermitage.
    > Karen Selwyn

Thank you, Karen. While it's good to know we could do the Hermitage, I'm
starting to think it would be insufficient reason for my daughter to "sit
out" most of the trip! I do appreciate your honest opinion, especially since
it comes from one who is more aware than most people of accessibility.

Felice

    > I was surprised to find any curb cuts in either Moscow or St. Petersburg,
    > but they do exist.

I do not remember seeing any in St. Petersburg, but maybe there are
some along Nevsky Prospekt (the main drag). One thing to know is
that, unlike the USA, cars have the right-of-way over pedestrians.
I have seen drivers almost run over old ladies, and then yell at them
to get out of the way. Do not under any circumstances jaywalk while
pushing a wheelchair!


Pete

"Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52>...
    > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and St.
    > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but have
    > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to curb
    > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > Thanks.

I can't remember seeing any curb cuts. Curbs are often very high.
Streets are often crossed by unerground tunnels. I can't recall seeing
any wheelchair ramps or elevators at the tunnel entrances. Overall, my
feeling is that such a visit would be an ordeal.

Bjorn

"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Dk61d.14483$w%[email protected] link.net...
    > > I was surprised to find any curb cuts in either Moscow or St.
Petersburg,
    > > but they do exist.
    > I do not remember seeing any in St. Petersburg, but maybe there are
    > some along Nevsky Prospekt (the main drag). One thing to know is
    > that, unlike the USA, cars have the right-of-way over pedestrians.
    > I have seen drivers almost run over old ladies, and then yell at them
    > to get out of the way. Do not under any circumstances jaywalk while
    > pushing a wheelchair!
    > Pete

Thanks, Pete, for the warning about cars running down little old ladies,
since I AM one. However, I'm used to Boston drivers, most of whom not only
think they have the right-of-way over pedestrians but over other drivers!

Felice

"Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...
    > "Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52>...
    > > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and
St.
    > > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but
have
    > > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to
curb
    > > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > > Thanks.
    > I can't remember seeing any curb cuts. Curbs are often very high.
    > Streets are often crossed by unerground tunnels. I can't recall seeing
    > any wheelchair ramps or elevators at the tunnel entrances. Overall, my
    > feeling is that such a visit would be an ordeal.
    > Bjorn

I think you're right, Bjorn. This could be more of an ordeal than we ever
thought. Maybe I'll have to settle for bringing her a magnificent souvenir!

Felice

    > I can't remember seeing any curb cuts. Curbs are often very high.
    > Streets are often crossed by unerground tunnels. I can't recall seeing
    > any wheelchair ramps or elevators at the tunnel entrances.

Actually there is a ramp - of sorts! Someone installed two steel
strips running down the stairs, and if the wheelchair stays perfectly
straight it will remain on the strips. But if a wheel falls off, you will
take a tumble.


Pete

    > > One thing to know is
    >> that, unlike the USA, cars have the right-of-way over pedestrians.
    >> I have seen drivers almost run over old ladies, and then yell at them
    >> to get out of the way. Do not under any circumstances jaywalk while
    >> pushing a wheelchair!
    > Thanks, Pete, for the warning about cars running down little old ladies,
    > since I AM one. However, I'm used to Boston drivers, most of whom
    > not only think they have the right-of-way over pedestrians but over
    > other drivers!

Sorry, I have been to Boston, and Russians make Bostonians look like
Boy Scouts. Traffic rules are very different in Russia. Russia and
Eastern European countries have the highest traffic fatality rates in the
world, for many reasons.


Pete

"Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52...
    > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and
St.
    > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but have
    > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to curb
    > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > Thanks.

I've just come back from St Petersburg.

Kerbs in many areas are unusually high and can be a problem even for the
able-bodied. Judging from their general standard of driving, this is
probably to discourage the Russian drivers from using the pavements as short
cuts. I don't recall seeing any dropped kerbs, although I was not looking
for them either. None of the buses or trams I saw were adapted for people
with mobility problems and access to the Metro is generally by steps and /
or exceptionally long escalators.

There are some concessions to wheelchair users, but they are haphazard and
sometimes not particularly practical. For example, in some of the
underpasses, the 'wheelchair access' consists of a pair of steel U channels
fitted down the line of the existing steps. I would not like to try to take
a heavy person up or down them. OTOH I do recall seeing some very good
looking stair lifts in at least one palace and others had notices claiming
that assistance was available on request.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:38:04 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> I can't remember seeing any curb cuts. Curbs are often very high.
    >> Streets are often crossed by unerground tunnels. I can't recall seeing
    >> any wheelchair ramps or elevators at the tunnel entrances.
    >Actually there is a ramp - of sorts! Someone installed two steel
    >strips running down the stairs, and if the wheelchair stays perfectly
    >straight it will remain on the strips. But if a wheel falls off, you will
    >take a tumble.
    >Pete

I use a wheelchair and I strongly advise the OP to not use those.
They are worthless for wheelchairs.

"Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<W371d.290422$8_6.249695@attbi_s04>...
    > "Bjorn Olsson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] om...
    > > "Felice Friese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<1u%0d.30976$MQ5.16481@attbi_s52>...
    > > > Can someone tell me whether it would be practical to take to Moscow and
    > St.
    > > > Petersburg someone who walks with crutches and, when necessary, uses a
    > > > travel wheelchair? I have emailed my (highly regarded) tour group but
    > have
    > > > not yet heard from them, but I would like to hear from someone who has
    > > > personal knowledge of accessibility in these two cities in regard to
    > curb
    > > > cuts, ramps, etc. We will certainly appreciate any help you can give us.
    > > > Thanks.
    > >
    > > I can't remember seeing any curb cuts. Curbs are often very high.
    > > Streets are often crossed by unerground tunnels. I can't recall seeing
    > > any wheelchair ramps or elevators at the tunnel entrances. Overall, my
    > > feeling is that such a visit would be an ordeal.
    > >
    > > Bjorn
    >
    > I think you're right, Bjorn. This could be more of an ordeal than we ever
    > thought. Maybe I'll have to settle for bringing her a magnificent souvenir!

Of all the countries in Europe, why on earth Russia??!?!??!

Apart from being extra-intimidating at the moment courtesy of various
terror groups, little consideration is made to make life easy for
ANYONE, let alone someone in a wheelchair!!! Especially Moscow, which
is harrowing for even the most able bodied person. I don't think St
Peter would be too bad, but Moscow definitely sounds like a nightmare
of a place to take someone in a wheelchair.
---
DFM

"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]. net>...
    > > > One thing to know is
    > >> that, unlike the USA, cars have the right-of-way over pedestrians.
    > >> I have seen drivers almost run over old ladies, and then yell at them
    > >> to get out of the way. Do not under any circumstances jaywalk while
    > >> pushing a wheelchair!
    > >
    > > Thanks, Pete, for the warning about cars running down little old ladies,
    > > since I AM one. However, I'm used to Boston drivers, most of whom
    > > not only think they have the right-of-way over pedestrians but over
    > > other drivers!
    >
    > Sorry, I have been to Boston, and Russians make Bostonians look like
    > Boy Scouts. Traffic rules are very different in Russia. Russia and
    > Eastern European countries have the highest traffic fatality rates in the
    > world, for many reasons.

Yes, this is the one thing I would point out as dangerous for the
western visitor to Russia. The traffic. Forget everything you've heard
about mafia, street crime, etc, etc, and focus your attention on
watching out for the cars. Russian drivers do NOT stop (ever) if you
get in their way, so whatever you do you must simply stay out of their
way, if you want to live.

Remember that Moscow main streets are crossed through tunnels. I have
several times seen bewildered visitors desperately trying to cross the
road and risking their lives trying to run between cars, not realising
that they should look for the nearest tunnel instead.

Bjorn