I have to say that in my 5 years here I've found most Canadians to be really friendly. One thing I would say is that an English friend of mine used to constantly fight the system here both at his job and in his spare time. You've got to accept that things are done differently here and people are different.

It's the bureacracy that gets me though. If the answer is 10, the process to get there need only be 5+5. In Canada it seems to be 1+2 then multiply that by 4, then divide by 2 and then add 4.

And when you suggest that's a bit long winded you get the old if it ain't broke don't fix it. But it bloody well is broke.

It's not in my nature to see something daft and not at least find out why something is done that way. I'm afraid "that's the way it is" isn't good enough for me.

How do we ever see improvements if nobody questions anything?

How did Medicare ever get off the ground?
"What do you mean provide basic medical care for everyone? What's wrong with the current system?"

I hear ya...

On the other hand the economy back home is choppy as hell.
This is the second time we've been back out here after swearing that we'd never move back out from the UK but needs must.

And it's only cold if you're not dressed for it.

That said, the customer service in Calgary is diabolical. It's as bad as back home which is totally hilarious.

You are right about customer service in the UK. I have just returned and, as a cash buyer in a depressed property market, have inquired about two homes and no one has ever bothered getting back to me. Trying to rent is also another disaster. The general level of red tape and meaningless paperwork is mind boggling, especially with the government institutions. On saying that, some organisations are quite good, especially the supermarket chains. The government should let someone like Tesco run the country which they are close to anyway.

Let me take a stab at it:

Both those who say Canadians are really unfriendly and those who say Canadians are friendly are right. Paradoxically.

There are, however, significant differences between how friends *behave* in Canada compared to the UK and that might be the problem for a lot of people:

Friends back home are often in your house frequently and drop by at short notice for example. They'll nearly always come out for a drink if you ask them and will stay all night and get toasted along with you.

In Canada, they are still friends but they are more formal. You need to make an appointment to see them and if you show up at their door they nearly always either won't answer or won't let you in. If you invite them for beers it's the same way: you need to make an appointment.

From someone used to the UK way of doing things the Canadian way of doing things could seem stand-offish and not "real" friends.

Over the years I have gotten (eeek Canuck spelling) used to it and we have become more Canuck-ified to the extent that when we were back home one of my cousins said we were unfriendly because we "never stopped by".

My response would be: why would I drive all the way out to Edinburgh if you might not be in and if I have to make a phone call to check if you're in why don't we just make an appointment and oh, why bother etc.

On the other hand: at least in Glasgow (don't know about the rest of the UK) people don't tend to go eat out for lunch at work with co-workers every day and in Canada a lot of times they do. From my perspective having worked in Canada during the late 90s and then moving back to Glasgow in the early 00's I found Glaswegians to be seriously unfriendly because they didn't want to go for lunch!!!

And yet they would ALWAYS go for a beer in the evenings.

Different strokes for different folks.

In the end, Canadians ARE friendly, just on their terms. You can't force them to do things the British way. You must adapt.

EDIT: I've never been to the east coast of Canada and I've heard they are "friendlier" and "more like back home" so my comments might not apply to them. Likewise to Quebec.

Thanks for the post xxdb, v interesting analysis of the friends issue! I've been reading a lot of posts and it does seem to be a bit of a paradox, but your explanation sounds pretty plausible.
It makes me feel better too because my partner and I already fit the 'Canuck' model, and I think it's one of the reasons we don't feel like we fit in here in the UK!

Nor does it apply to any of our friends here in BC who wander round unannounced and head straight to the fridge for a beer (unless it's early morning)

Bev -- what a great post! I must agree w/ you 100%. I have family that live in Old Ottawa South (have been there 30+ years) and I think that is one of the only ways I could enjoy living in Ottawa. It's a FABULOUS neighbourhood, but the price to get in now is around $600-800,000 Cnd for a house that isn't crumbling to the ground, has some parking, etc.

We are in the suburbs of Ottawa and I must say it is a soul-crushing experience, especially in the winter. We listen to BBC and they are talking about the daffs coming up in gardens now. We still have three feet of snow. Very depressing.

I've lived here my whole life and am just so depressed by the winters -- I don't ski and I'm not about to start. Not my cup of tea. I am a fair-weather bird stuck in the arctic.

So Bev, you are absolutely right -- besides the weather, Ottawa would be lovely if you could afford Old Ottawa South or Westboro, but outside of those areas, ermmm... not so nice.

and in 3 years time you start anew thread. "sp sick of Thaailand" Too hot, muggy, 3rd world, traffic problems etc... Ha.....go and do it. Makes you feel better for a while.

No I visit thailand and malaysia every year and love it moved to vancouver first and loved been there but could not find work so had to move to calgary which I just dont like one bit to cold and not friendley

Doesn't sound too friendly to me. I'm sure psychologists would a field day with this one. How can this behaviour be construed as friendly. Someone acting like that sounds like they have a personality defect. I as flabbergasted when I found that most neighbours completely ignore each other for decades. I'm not a gossip over the fence person, but the behaviour you've just described is different only by being dysfunctional. People do tend to scurry away into their homes after work and do bugger all at weekends. My neighbours used to both work from home and almost never went anywhere. Just stayed at home 24/7. Dull and boring!

Really interesting points of view on this one! Pertinent to us as we're heading to Saskatchewan soon! It's pretty easy to find fault with whatever country you find yourself in i guess. Personally speaking as a 'middle englander' with a wife and 2 young children, life in the UK at the moment is one hell of a struggle. And you think red tape there is bad!!
We have talked about making the plunge for years now and are grasping the nettle and going for it. It's going to be easier for us than most initially as we have family already in Sask who are going to put us up for a while and help us settle in. I might also add that thay live in Rural Saskatchewan and have a far better social life now than when they lived in the UK (Nr Selby!), they always have people just 'popping in' for a brew or a moonshine! lol. They went out of their way to integrate themselves and are doing very well, perhaps helped by, in their own words 'avoiding the moaning Brits'! We live in Southport now, a town of over 80,000 people and I can count local good friends on one hand. I wouldn't know my neighbours across the road if I tripped over them in the street. So things can be just the same wherever you find yourself.
I do have to smile when people mention the 'cold' winters as if it's a huge surprise. It's a bit like saying the Sahara gets a bit warm in Summer, lol.
No doubt I'll get a few responses....hey -ho....Just my 2 penneth and I've enjoyed reading the thread. Good luck.

I can totally relate to the thread about people of Canada keeping themselves to themselves,and making an appointment every time you want to go and see them,or visa versa. Is taken me 10yrs to get use to this,and now i actually like a call myslef before people come round,although i would never turn anyone away.

We are in the process of trying to move back to the UK,and I was there a month ago at my mam and dad's.I loved friends just calling in for a cuppa,although at times the house was full,but never a dull moment.I think i could get use to it again after time. I just love having friends and family around most of the time,after all thats what makes the world go round.We are a social bunch and i just hope the next village we move to is a nice friendly lot too.Looking forward to our move back..........hopfully soon

Interesting thread - I have to say the US was similar to how Canada was described. Socializing and friendships just work differently.

Yes, you normally do at least call before turning up on someone's doorstep, and yes, staying out past 10 p.m. is seen as being "late", and yes, arranging to have a meal is more the norm than impromptu after work booze-ups.

But I don't see why that is dysfunctional. It's just different.