Every club has the opportunity to challenge Man Utd on the marketing side of things. Obviously Man Utd dominate that aspect now so they must have some sort of appeal that other clubs can't match.

Do Spurs have a 100% success rate against teams with a smaller budget?

If other teams with 1/10 the budget of Man Utd can beat them why can't the likes of Spurs?

Utd are rich, but given the debt that they have to service too I wonder if other clubs have more "disposable income" as it were. Arsenal probably have the soundest financial footing (short of a sugar daddy like Roman Abramovich), but they seem loath to spend it on top drawer established players.

Does anyone think that "financial fair play" will make much difference?


On any given day anything can happen on the field, but over the course of a season the clubs with serious resources will nearly always dominate.

Be interesting to see what happens when ole glowing nose finally retires.

What are you rabbiting on about? The only thing more boring than Man Utd is a Man Utd fan.

Manchester United are famous because of a disaster in Munich firstly and secondly because they were fortunate to come good when the TV income distribution and global TV exposure changed dramatically with the beginning of the Premier League.

No one can dispute Alex Ferguson has done a good job of course but the change in Football economics that was bought on initially by Hillsborough and then accelerated by the Premier League has played to their favour.

The clubs have too much power now. I just can't see Uefa having the clout to really enforce it.

For Financial fair play to take place you would need clubs to alienate other clubs. The finances of each club are so mirky I just can't see it, creative accounting and dodgey sponsorship deals are the norm.

How many Man Utd fans in China or Malaysia have any idea that there was a plane crash in Munich? Not many. You say "..they were fortunate........" - so its just down to luck and fortune then?

The changes in football economics benefited all the "big" clubs Spurs included. Some clubs have been more successful in exploiting the benefits than others.

I'm not a Man Utd fan by the way.

They were fortunate.

Liverpool had a very strong 80's but the global appeal of the Premier League wasn't there. Football shirts weren't the equivalent of 50 pounds. Teams didn't sell naming rights to their grounds and working class fans could get into games.

It was pre-Taylor report so the crowd surges and violence did not help matters. The Taylor report has a lot to answer.

You are right people in China and Malaysia have no clue of Hillsborough or the fact that Manchester United don't even really play in Manchester. That is just the sad reality of a game that forgot the fans who built it.

Manchester United have produced some good teams in the last twenty years and Ferguson knows how to win Football games. But of the pitch they have been more impressive selling out in every way they can to line the pockets of owners and players.

It's the people in Trafford and Salford I feel sorry for. I don't see many tourist dollars rebuilding those depressed areas around the stadium.

All the other clubs have sold out too. The Liverpool "racism is acceptable" one was a classic example. There was only a climb down when Standard Charter threatened to pull their 20 million pounds a season.

Tottenham were screwed over by "Sir" Alan Sugar. ITV had a much better TV deal on offer for Tottenham but Sugar called his pal Rupert Murdoch because he was the satellite dish provider for Sky. His desire to sell dishes for Amstrad was far greater than his desire to build a decent club.

Lstly I'm glad you are not a Man United fan. I don't usually engage in dialogue of any length with them so I feel much better about posting here now.

Once some one tells me they support Man United I'm usually switched of and thinking about more pressing stuff. As I say the club is boring and I find they offer no interesting perspective or point of view of the game. They assume a devine right to win and as I don't really understand where the joy is in the game for them. When they don't win it is usually drivil like "We can't win every year" or "How many European Cups have you won". I don't find the Man United fan in the UK any more knowledgable than some of the idiots I meet who sport Man United training tops here. I had a "Man United fan" from Lancashire ask me over a pint the other day who I supported. I had played two seasons with him wearing Tottenham shirts.

Rant over.

I need a beer.

I dont think Man U fans are particularly bad, and they have had some exceptional tallent to watch so I dont really get your point.

Generally its the older ones, who remember what SAF started with and before that who have the more interesting perspective.

Liverpool had quite a good time of it in the 70s too by the way

Pains me to say it, but what SAF has done in building, maintaining and rebuilding consistently successful teams there has been nothing short of absolutely outstanding, I dont think we will see his like again in my lifetime to be honest.

Football has definitely lost its soul though with the pursuit of money, but you cant really blame the players for taking what they can get, it can be a very small window of opportunity for many, and if someone offered my $100k a week to do my job I would not say "No thanks, its too much", would you?

It pains me to agree. It further pains me to suggest that if a competitor for "best manager" is to be found, it's probably Martin O'Neill.

+ 1. I wanted him before Rafa B took over at Liverpool.

I have always thought that David Moyes has done a solid job on a shoe string.

I think we all agree that Ferguson has been amazing. Apparently they were going to sack him if he had lost that first FA Cup final.

The biggest challenge for any manager now is that there is so much money in the game that boards and fans demand results quickly.

You won't get managers reshaping a club like Fergie has done anymore.

Perhaps.

In recent years I have not found Manchester United to be particularly entertaining. Just organised and efficient. I think Jose Mourinho's Chelsea made Fergie evolve his style.

Hard to know what Moyes would be like with money behind him, but he's worked miracles at Everton.

Mark Robins wonder goal against Forest in the 3rd round (1990) wasnt it?


Nottingham Forest, could be a pointer to Utds future when a collossus of an irreplacable manager retires...


Well, its nice to dream

Man Utd have been there before though haven't they when Busby retired.

Nottingham Forest have just reverted to what they were before Clough. I don't think you can compare them to Man Utd.

Leeds are probably a good model for what can happen when the financial risks taken were too great.

My top managers for the last three decades and a bit would be Ferguson, Clough, Paisley, Wenger and the special one.

Exactly, dropped down to the 2nd division in the early 70s, countless years before they recovered to win anything. Its unimaginable now I suppose.

Maybe not... The surprise is maybe not that bumpy transition , but how Liverpool avoided it by and large through Shanks, Paisley, Fagan, Moran, Evans, Dalglish etc