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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12732421)
A unilateral removal of tariff barriers would be ill advised and a bilateral one requires negotiation with the other government(s) involved. I suppose the former is possible but very much doubt the latter is in place; with which countries has the government negotiated the removal of tariff barriers and on which products?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732109)
Remainers want an election/referendum to break the parliamentary impasse.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12732460)
Surely, the way to get the latter, is to have the former, and hope the party that offers that wins, isn't it?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732112)
Why not ?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732115)
You would be surprised just how important the sovereignty issue for so many especially. But you are dead right that most of those people have no idea how the EU works.
As for pre-1992, practically 30 years ago, technology has advanced tremendously and allowed cross border supply chains and commercial integration. It's a fallacious point. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12732462)
Just compare the way the UK's politicians have handled this, with the way the EU's politician's have. I am confident that, behind the scenes, main EU leaders would be willing to deal with the Irish border issue but, publicly, they are standing firm with Ireland. The EU has not incentive to move from its current position if it believes that the UK will never actually allow Brexit to occur but will simply delay the matter indefinitely.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12732465)
Trade is conducted all over the world and it works well. Clearly, trade between the UK and the EU post Brexit will be different than it is now but, eventually, a trade agreement will be achieved and life will return to normal, insofar as trade is concerned. However, the "will they, won't they" current situation will be massively affecting the decisions that businesses involved with UK/EU trade will have to make, which is not good for any of them. Once the position is know, they can deal with it but the ending delay upon delay helps no one.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12732062)
Which is the more likely then, that you are mistaken about nothing having changed or that Boris is misleading everyone when he says he's made substantial progress.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12732063)
I intended "ordinary people" to mean people who won't make fortunes shorting the pound so just about everyone except, perhaps, Jacob Rees Mogg and Joe Lewis. I suppose de-nationalized healthcare would be financially beneficial to some doctors who are not, themselves, in need of healthcare. There would be a few winners. As far as I can see though most leavers consciously choose to vote against their interests. I wonder what they think is it in for them. If it's just "kicking out the French" (or whichever nationality is out of fashion today) then there's no need to leave to do that. If it's a desire for un-iced kippers, again that could be achieved within the EU.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732468)
Yes, the current uncertainty helps no one. May wasted a lot of time.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12732278)
Hmmm... Well you've chosen a slice of the UK electorate that's not doing too badly to start with.
I refer you to https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...s-better-value It's clear that in the UK the average Costco customer probably visualises a downside to leaving the EU but I suspect that even a Costco customer would see benefits as the tariffs imposed by the EU will result in lower food prices. 'Ahh' I hear you say 'But he won't be able to afford even the cheaper prices because he'll have lost his job in the crash and won't be able to afford it'. Well, if that ever came to pass, he'll join the dole queue with those voters who voted Leave then who saw no benefit to being to being in the EU in the first place and still want to leave. It'll be these ignored and forgotten voters who'll dictate, in the end, whether the UK leaves or not, when they get given the chance. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12732471)
I have no idea about what has, or has not, been discussed behind closed doors and I would have thought that that was obvious.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12732487)
But presumably you are aware that Boris claimed substantial progress in talks when multiple sources involved in the same discussions have said nothing of the sort. After all, you did say yourself that nothing has changed ;)
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12732487)
But presumably you are aware that Boris claimed substantial progress in talks when multiple sources involved in the same discussions have said nothing of the sort. After all, you did say yourself that nothing has changed ;)
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Re: PM Boris
I can't disagree with any of the comments made here:
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12732494)
I believe you are seeking an argument purely for an argument's sake. .
Apparently you don't. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Oakvillian
(Post 12732483)
Eh? How do you work that one out? Import tariffs (paid by the UK importer, by the way, not by the foreign exporter) will certainly be passed through to the UK retail price of the goods for sale. That will result, clearly, in higher food prices for any imported foods. The UK has not been self-sufficient in food production for years: here's an article from the NFU in 2014 (so five years old now, but removed from any possible Brexit bias in either direction) bemoaning the continuing decline year-over-year since 1991 in Britain's self-sufficiency, which now sits somewhere around 60%. https://www.nfuonline.com/self-suffi...h-plan-needed/
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732266)
Not exactly. In EU Britain is one of top three states and has a primary role in influencing decisions; as one of many US partners Britain will be doing as it is told.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...ropean-council |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12732496)
Which UK media do you read (if any)? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 12732502)
UK seems to be in the loosing minority far more than anyone else https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...ropean-council |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732515)
Interesting stats, but as the caveats at the end point out, the UK is on the majority side 87% of the time. In any case, whatever the limits of EU influence are now pale into comparison when compared to third country status.
It’s very unclear whether the Uk can get it’s needs included in trade deals within the EU any better than as an independent country. Does the USA negotiate trade deals on behalf of Canada or Japan negotiate on behalf of South Korea so how do they manage? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 12732501)
Given the huge increase in immigration over the last 25 years a decline in food self sufficiency shouldn’t come as a great surprise to anyone. |
Re: PM Boris
Back in the real world for once, an important move in this game of political chess has just passed the Lords, the 'No-Deal Bill' will receive Royal Assent and become Law.
Q. Why was this allowed to happen? IF Boris had meant a 'do or die' attitude existed then surely he would have instructed his associates in the Lords to talk it out, but this was not done. Had the Lords talked the bill out then they would have been accused of abusing the system, etc etc, and if the UK had eventually left with a no-deal then there would have been this sickly 'smell' about the process. But the bill was allowed to pass knowing that an extension would certainly follow. The government would have 'gamed' this and would know what the consequences would be. Their conclusion is that they have apparently decided to 'bet the farm' on the idea that a further extension carries an even nastier 'stench' with it and have adopted a post 31st October strategy where they'll start hammering away at the costs of continuing EU membership, etc etc, with the obvious villains to be decimated at the inevitable early election. Not quite checkmate yet, but it's coming..... |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 12732523)
Yes 87% seems high, although probably 85% is routine non controversial stuff and the other 15 % what matters. UK and Germany do appear to be opposed most often. It’s very unclear whether the Uk can get it’s needs included in trade deals within the EU any better than as an independent country. Does the USA negotiate trade deals on behalf of Canada or Japan negotiate on behalf of South Korea so how do they manage? Why on earth would the USA negotiate on behalf of Canada? Or even more bizarrely Japan on behalf of SK? None of these countries are in a customs union? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732528)
If it's very unclear what are some of the products that UK has been disadvantaged in trading as a result of being in the EU?
Why on earth would the USA negotiate on behalf of Canada? Or even more bizarrely Japan on behalf of SK? None of these countries are in a customs union? Exactly so if Canada and South Korea don’t need a bigger power to give them more clout in trade negotiations why would the UK need the EU? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 12732535)
EU places tariffs on imported shoes to protect the industry in Spain/Italy/France I think. So everyone in The EU pays a higher price for shoes to protect an industry which doesn’t exist in the UK at any scale. Doc's. Made in England. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 12732535)
EU places tariffs on imported shoes to protect the industry in Spain/Italy/France I think. So everyone in The EU pays a higher price for shoes to protect an industry which doesn’t exist in the UK at any scale. What UK industry receives similar special protection? Exactly so if Canada and South Korea don’t need a bigger power to give them more clout in trade negotiations why would the UK need the EU? Canada and Korea lack clout, there's no real reason the UK needs to diminish its global power as an independent. It can achieve its trade ambitions within the EU (as Germany does for example). The idea that the UK is held back by unfavourable EU trade regulation is UKIP/BP myth. If there were any substantive issues, wouldn't we be hearing about them from the CBI, IOD, UKTI etc? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Boris
We are on the verge of getting a deal
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12732554)
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732556)
It's a great clip isn't it. Sums it up completely. I have to admit when 'charismatic Boris' was elected I was a bit worried that he would manage to take us over the cliff. But with each passing day, I worry less and less.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732551)
How about cars? The UK produces many which it sells into Europe. EU tariffs protect against American and Asian exports. Whiskey? Lamb? No one is arguing that the EU isn't a protectionist racket (as Trump alleges) hence the desirability to be on the inside. Obviously there are categories which are more expensive within the EU, shoes are a well known one, as certain fruits. On the flip side we have a market of 500 million people in which to sell UK financial services and other intangibles. And that is not going to be replaced by a suddenly open US markets.
Canada and Korea lack clout, there's no real reason the UK needs to diminish its global power as an independent. It can achieve its trade ambitions within the EU (as Germany does for example). The idea that the UK is held back by unfavourable EU trade regulation is UKIP/BP myth. If there were any substantive issues, wouldn't we be hearing about them from the CBI, IOD, UKTI etc? |
Re: PM Boris
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...aeaa3f5270.jpg
Don't let him near a China Shop. Better keep the bull out too. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732513)
Oh gawd AC, don't watch morons like that guy. A couple of nutjobs on another thread post his videos, he has a really warped opinion.
Which UK media do you read (if any)? |
Re: PM Boris
Roderick James Nugent Stewart OBE FRSL FRSGS MP is one of those Eton and Balliol educated diplomats who think that they understand how the rest of those condemned be classed among the average UK citizenry carve out a living.
No doubt he's intelligent, but when he makes a stand against no-deal he does it from the standpoint of one who doesn't understand why ordinary people think the way they do. And yet he's sufficiently arrogant to insist that his view of the UK should meld with other like minded MPs to override the wishes of the majority lawfully expressed in a lawfully constituted referendum. Eton and Balliol will be proud of him. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12732702)
Roderick James Nugent Stewart OBE FRSL FRSGS MP is one of those Eton and Balliol educated diplomats who think that they understand how the rest of those condemned be classed among the average UK citizenry carve out a living.
No doubt he's intelligent, but when he makes a stand against no-deal he does it from the standpoint of one who doesn't understand why ordinary people think the way they do. And yet he's sufficiently arrogant to insist that his view of the UK should meld with other like minded MPs to override the wishes of the majority lawfully expressed in a lawfully constituted referendum. Eton and Balliol will be proud of him. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12732513)
Oh gawd AC, don't watch morons like that guy. A couple of nutjobs on another thread post his videos, he has a really warped opinion.
Which UK media do you read (if any)? It must be really tough being a political satirist at the moment, it's hard to tell the difference between reality and satire. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
(Post 12732744)
He's no moron, his analysis is pretty damn shrewd, and consistently. Perhaps 30 years ago you'd have called Spitting Image moronic.
It must be really tough being a political satirist at the moment, it's hard to tell the difference between reality and satire. |
Re: PM Boris
On a lighter note, little Britain personified.......
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...6ad5650424.jpg |
Re: PM Boris
I see that Amber Rudd has decided to pull another nail from Boris's sinking ship.
Amber Rudd, child of a stockbroker and a magistrate, descendant of Charles II, and former pupil at Cheltenham Ladies College, an educational facility open to few young ladies from the east end, is another typical UK lawmaker seeking to enhance the lifestyle of ordinary citizens by choosing to resign from the government. And why? Apparently she doesn't agree with Boris sacking her mates. But of course she's eminently qualified to understand how ordinary people live because she actually worked for a living, or at least had a job, before becoming an MP. After graduating with a useful History degree she was obviously prime material for her first job with J P Morgan, you know that bank, but fortunately another promising opportunity invited her to become a director of the investment company Lawnstone Limited at the experienced age of 24 taking over from her sister and brother-in-law. So Boris identified a like minded individual who sadly doesn't need to be PM just yet and still has a few unused knives in her belt and can await a better opportunity to use them. So she's gone... but she'll be back, just thinks she's backed the wrong horse this time. |
Re: PM Boris
Wow, that's catty.
It's funny to see conservatives turning on each other like this. Keep it up! Who's next for the hatchet job? |
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