Had a pleasant flight on a RAF VC10 out of Brize back in '73' to Washington DC via Ottawa (refuelling) on my way to join an RN war canoe in the West Indies. Good times.

War canoe ?

I think I knew about the one in Canada now you mention it, but it's also the name of a village close to the wonderfully inaccurately named Belfast International Airport and what was formerly RAF Aldergrove, but what is apparently now called Joint Helicopter Command Flying Station Aldergrove, which is a hell of a mouthful. Wikipedia tells me that the first non-stop transatlantic flight in a jet aircraft flew out of Aldergrove to Gander, in 1951, which I never knew before.

Sorry, slang for war ship....

Two Livers, innit?

Sorry, you've lost me

Oh sorry, I see now that that's another airport in Belfast, the only one I've used.

I think I flew to Hong Kong as a a small child on an RAF VC10 out of BZZ (well, I know I flew to Hong Kong, I think it would've been on a VC10). Several stops along the way, I think at Akrotiri, Gan (Maldives) and Singapore.

Two Livers has the naming honour of Belfast City airport.

I'd like to thank everyone for a truly epic thread drift that, unknowingly I instigated with my post-brexit-attempt-at-a-funny. Thread drifting is one of the best things about BE....

If the alternative is talking about the disaster that is befalling the UK in real time, I'd rather reminisce about old aeroplanes. Fred Drift is a valuable member of this community.

Sometimes its better for countries to look after their own affairs. Countries differ culturally and the way they manage their own affairs. Nato has kept peace in Europe since WW2 not the European Union. Verhofstadt wants a new world order and Empire to "stand up to Empires like US,China and Russia." His words not mine. Obviously he sees them as a threat which is amusing because he sounded like an Empire builder himself at the Lib Dem conference. If other nations were fed up of empires a century ago why is the EU trying to build another one. Total globalisation and open borders might not be the perfect answer. Its great in theory but so are a lot of things in life. I love Europe and the people and some of my European friends would rather their own sovereignty back to. I have a Spanish friend who feels strangulated by the EU with plenty of work building houses but no one has any money to pay him. Tell that to the EU civil servants with good salaries and pensions, an institution that costs the EU tax payer a fortune. What about deflation in the EU. Is Germany heading for a recession. Who is going to prop up all the EU spending it has planned now and in the future? I notice in Nova Scotia if they can't afford it they don't spend it. Free trade and travel is a great idea but handing over the keys of your house for someone else to look after could be looking for trouble.

An argument against Brexit is that the UK is tied into arrangements with the other EU countries for all aspects of life; trading in goods, individuals traveling between the countries, dealing with criminals between countries, those arrangements will still be wanted by the UK in the event of Brexit and they'll all have to be negotiated all over again. That's a lot of cost and there's no gain. Or, if there is a gain, please explain what it is.

Atlantic Canada is, of course, subsidized by the affluence of other Provinces; we might see Nova Scotia as Wales in an EU analogy.

Absolute bilge. Learn some history please.

Thanks for your reply, I do see your point of our close ties to Europe. I think most developed countries are pretty much all connected through technology, different world organisations and treaties to deal with the points you mention without having an extra cost of an EU parliament, army, embassies etc..I don't know what the cost of renegotiating deals with the EU will cost but either way it'll come as a cost to the UK wether the UK will stay in or out. If the UK stayed in the people may as well just for one parliament in Brussels, one currency and a federal EU state, scrap Westminster, the Scottish, Welsh and NI assemblies. There won't be much your local MP can do for you anyway according to a certain MP so may be just use the MEPs if one has issues. I think the gains are being in control of ones own affairs good or bad. The EU does seem very bureaucratic and restrictive in what member states can do. This also leads to countries breaking EU rules because of the constraints imposed by the EU.

Perhaps we can all do away with national government too. We all have smartphones now, and there's the internet too. Why do we need to pay for people to go to that big palace and sit around all day spending our money on coffee and croissants. We've built a pretty good world, if we switch to reuseable bottles we can avert climate change, and corporations are perfectly capable to provide us with whatever they have decided we need.