scrubbedexpat091

I have exhausted every idea I could think of to pay for school. I would be 50 before we had the amount saved and by then I am sure the costs will have increased greatly.


2k or 3k over 3 or 4 semesters is doable as in my examples. 10k paid all at once at the start of a 6 month program not doable and 10k would take us 7 to 10 years to save.


If one doesnt have the necessary resources to acheive something. Its not gonna happen.

I personally gave up on ever gaining a skill, not worth worrying about anymore. Govt says I am too disabled, so I am learning to accept my fate.




Not sure I would call a self employed person who chooses to work less as under employed.

That is a personal choice made by them.

dbd33

I can't agree with this. I have little formal education, few of the people I work with have much in the way of education.

Yes, if you aspire to be Professor of Matters Professorial, you need lots of degrees, but if you aspire to making money it's not so relevant. Money comes from selling. Poor people are disadvantaged in selling because they tend to know other poor people; the Prom Queen at Affluent High will know well off people who want houses, cars, whatever, a network exists for her to sell high value/high commission items. Immigrants may be similarly advantaged, if you're the only tagalog speaking estate agent in Toronto you will have an immediate market. My inspiration, the man I set out to emulate, managed without either; Tom Vu sold in America without knowing Americans or speaking American. "If he can do it...", I thought, and I did.

Of course, selling requires a brazen attitude and the gift of the gab but they're qualities people have or do not have regardless of education.

scrubbedexpat091

Sales is a skill though. Some have it, some dont.

I tried some small sales jobs in my 20s. I didnt do well. I am anxious, I dont have the social talky personality needed.

Sales + anxiey + introverted personality doesnt lead to success...lol


For me nothing I could do that pays a decent wage without some sort of formal training for a specific job like lab assistant or pharmacy tech or something along those lines. Decent hourly wage, fairly short tern training.

You cant get those sorts of jobs without training.

I am not a career networking type. I do not know anyone really and my wife is also limited to who she knows.

We are not professionals in any profession so there are no conventions or other types of events where one would network.

We just need a 17 to 20hr starting wage each and we would do okay and have the options we desire.

At my current level, 11 or 12 is about as high as I can get.

Not looking for a 6 figure income, just a decent income. 30 or 35k a year each would be fine and would lead to a pretty quality life.

dbd33

It seems to me that you have options that were not open to me. When, after 14 weeks in the country I was fired, I had no money, debt of over 1,000 quid, a pregnant wife and no means of support other than getting a job. I didn't have to option to say that I didn't have the personality, education or skills needed for the well paid positions so I faked the personality and lied about the education.

Once I had a foot in the door I worked harder than everyone else. When it came out that I'd lied, it was too late, the well educated people had already been made redundant; I'd taken their lunch. I don't make the false correlation that hard work leads to success, lots of people work hard and aren't lucky, but saying that "I don't have the personality" is a rich person's choice. Hungry people get the required personality.

bats

What about cleaning? I know two people who got jobs as cleaners then set up their own companies. Both are successful.

Shard

Not necessarily. Especially those dealing with mental issues. That's why we have the homeless and why we need the safety net.

dbd33

Fair enough. However, it's hard to tell where defeatism ends and debilitating condition begins.

JonboyE

Couldn't you have hidden that behind a spoiler button and given fair warning?

Shard

Have you joined the Almost Canadian Norman Tebbit cycling club?

Other than some slacker youths, I would say the debilitating condition begins precisely at the point where the individual does not have the wherewithal to sell widgets or his/herself.

BristolUK

I very nearly went back and edited an apology in.

dbd33

Membership was thrust upon me.

scrubbedexpat091

I dont know about lying about education. It would become pretty evident pretty quickly in a job that I dont actually have the education I said I did.

The job market has changed over the years, its not the same today. Companies put a lot of importance on having a degree even if said degree has nothing to do with the job.

My dad for example started at his place of work in 1978. He is still there about to retire. It is impossible today at that employer to do what he and the older generation did. The employer for one no longer considers anyone for the position without a college degree. The entry level jobs have been outsourced. Middle management is recruited from colleges and other sources instead of having people work up from entry level like my dad did.

Of the large companies I have worked for, I was told over and over without a degree they just could not let me go beyond supervisory level. Anything else needed a degree.

I always got good reviews. Never had any dicipline issues. Was never told I was doing a bad job at those companies.

Outsourcing has eliminated a lot of entry level jobs as well which makes it hard to get a foot in when the companies clearly want degrees or formal training.

Take hospitals in BC. At one point you could get a cleaning job and there were other options. Those entry level jobs are now largely outsourced to 3rd part vendors paying nearly min wage.

For the record I did apply at the company who has the contract for the local hospital but I got a thanks but no thanks email and never got an interview.


Cant exactly fake the education or training for most of the jobs, I would like to do and feel would be a good fit for me.

Sales isnt a good fit for me at all. I am saying it from experience in trying to do sales a couple times.

I know where my weakness lie and what I can and cannot do.

I also have some hurdles like untreated mental health issues that create some difficulties like any illness can.

I have no doubt with proper treatment I might have better chances. The studies that have been done show a high probability of a sucessful life for those who have the treatment and supports needed. Those who dont. They dont fare so well.

dbd33

I think you're missing a change in workplace practices that aids the poorly educated. It's true that there was a movement away from learning on the job toward requiring a degree for everything but I think that's been mitigated by the casualization of the workforce.

It was the HR department that set the general corporate requirements; specifically that everyone had to have a degree. People hired through corporate HR would then be awarded a position with benefits such as healthcare, paid vacations and pensions. These benefits were expensive so corporations have steadily moved away from having employees to having independent subcontractors on what, in the UK, are called zero hour contracts. There have always been some people who worked this way but they tended to be highly paid specialists needed for short periods.

Now, all of the computer department, most of the accountants, the person who dispatches the salt trucks, half the staff of the hospital, are on contract. Reasonably often, the contractors are the same people who were previously employees, now paid more per hour but without benefits, in effect betting on having a good life but a short one.

Contractors are typically hired by local managers (often themselves contractors) who are solely concerned with getting the job done. They don't care what education the worker has "does he know Java?" not "does he have a degree in coffee plantation management?" and they're asking the pimp (sorry, reputable consulting firm) not the worker and the pimp will always say "yes, years of experience, self starter". Practically speaking, the consulting firm lies for the worker, a benefit to the less brazen.

So long as the worker has a reasonable general knowledge, is a competent bullshitter and will secretly spend the evenings learning what he or she was sold as knowing, this arrangement is a boon to those without qualifications.

Almost Canadian

One assumes most people are capable of cleaning their own houses. That being the case, I fail to see what form of debilitating mental condition would prevent someone, that was able to hold a job, from being able to set up their own cleaning business as suggested by Bats above.

As you are likely aware, many other posters have suggested lots of other similar options, all of which have been rejected.

Of course, another option is to give up. One then has lots of time to post about it online.

BristolUK

To be fair, there's an enormous difference between occasional light domestic cleaning of one's own accommodation to self satisfying standards and something one does for around 40 hours a week to someone else's standards at multiple sites, and that's without the accountancy aspects, different equipment, and operation of same, alongside the added complication of perhaps being an employer to someone.

It's like saying that because I can do my rental accounts I can become an accountant for some financial giant.