scrubbedexpat091

What % of the population choose to be under employed? Just curious.

scrubbedexpat091

So how do people propose higher education being available to those who cannot afford it?


To me it just seems that the haves just want to keep the have nots down.

Oink

This precisely why poorer families can't compete. You and your children have/had an understanding of the rules of system, how to get information about those rules and an appreciation of the importance of HE and the confidence to pursue and engage it. For many reasons, poorer families, especially those in NA, don't. So if its the genuine policy of a particular government to ameliorate that situation it must start at the public school level by changing attitudes.

Oink

There's an element of that for sure. It called competitive advantage but then who wouldn't want the best for their children?

scrubbedexpat091

Dbd clearly has or had a high income. Poor people do not and thus cannot finance a degree.

If someone doesnt have the money they are held back from obtaining it.

Few on here really have any understanding of what its like to be poor.


People always complain the programs for the poor help those who dont need it and they should be scraped.

But nobody seems to offer any alternatives.

Oink

There are ways, even in the US but you have to have had 4.00 or 4.00+ GPA, have taken as many AP courses in high school as humanly possible, then had the tenacity, energy and motivation to look for funding/ scholarships etc. Or join the military with the goal of applying for GI Bill funding. All of which assumes a lot. Statistically children in poorer families are disadvantaged, its not fair but it just the accident of birth.

dbd33

I have direct experience of being poor. "Came to this country with only debts, the clothes in which we stood, a cue and a pair of skis". Cliched, but true. I suppose I have a moderately high income, some years it's actually high, some not. What the children had was not money but an educated parent with that immigrant drive to make them successful, cultural capital.

I think education should be free. So long as students keep passing the exams the state should keep paying for them to have more education. I don't think funding should be linked to any sort of career goals, it's education for its own sake. I recognize though that, whatever the system, some people will work it better others. One should choose one's parents wisely.

scrubbedexpat091

If anything its easier to go to school in parts of the US. California manages to operate a reasonably priced community college system where people can gain skills needed for employment.

BC has nothing like that. The schools that have comminity college in the name in BC are far from affordable and are lacking.


4.0 gpa isnt feasible for all. Not everyone is a straight A student. Not everyone can get into the military.

Scholarships well they always aeem to want a high gpa as well.

Those programs still largely do not help an average low income person thus still leaving out anyone who is average.

I would be more productive having access to school to gain a skill and would have a higher income and a taxable income at that. Govt might actually benefit if people were educated and not held back because they are poor or not a perfect 4.0 student.


The haves always keeping people dpwn for cheap labor and because oh my the 6 figure income earners might have to pay more taxes.

I am done.


It is near impossible in this country to get anywhere employment wise without some post secondary schooling. Not necessairly a degree from a university.

Oink

I've been on scholarship committees and the amount of applications is staggering. It seemed the applicants were either called Jennifer or Brandon and had 4:00+ GPA, and had spent all their spare time cuddling disabled dogs, taking disadvantaged children on adventure holidays and working in state government for the summers. In the end I'd just chuck the lot down the stairs and pick the one that went the furthest.

bc2015

They introduced free 3rd level tuition in Ireland in 1995 and it actually didn't improve access to higher education at all

This is worth a read

http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publi...rywp201026.pdf

The TL;DR of it is that just giving free tuition is not enough as students from low income families tend to perform poorly at second level and carry this through 3rd level.

I saw evidence of this when I was in college in Ireland - dropout rates for some courses were 50% after 1st year, mainly because free fees (and an increase in places) meant that people who were ill-equipped for college were getting places.

scrubbedexpat091

I didnt even try scholarships.

Never found any suitable for an adult who has been out of school for 20 years. Not saying they dont exist, I just never came across any.

Its just very annoying how high cost a short term training program can be.

6 to 10k for a 6 or 8 month training course is not affordable and certainly beyond paying out of pocket.

I am not university material, never have been and never will be.

But I do need some sort of training in a specific job to ever gain any decent employment that isnt retail or fast food or a hotel or insert whatever crappy low paid job I can get at some crummy company.

I have no chance at anything good as the competition will always be better skilled.


College isnt always about an education or degree, they also need to be set up for employment based skills like California has done.

You can do anything from a trade to all your first and 2nd year university at a community college there and everything in between like nursing, auto mechanic, police training and so on.

All done at an affordable price for state residents and instructors were always good for the class. My EMT class was taught by a paramedic. Nursing classes tend to be taught by nurses.

You can learn real world skills for employment.

Its not always about academics and a degree.

It doesnt have to be free just affordable.


Take the nursing program at the community college I went to.

Estimates cost is 3,500. Over the 4 semesters that averages 875. That is affordable.

Surgical tech program is 2,200 which averages out to 733 per semester for the 3 semesters. Average pay is 35 to 50k for the San Diego region for that profession which isnt all that bad for 3 semesters of traning.

Almost Canadian

I have no idea but I suspect that most self employed professionals are underemployed.

Just speaking from personal experience, I choose to spend more time with my family and less time in the office than most in my profession do. For me, time with them is worth far more than the additional $ I could earn.

My accountant tells me that doctors are the worst for this. In his experience, most of them decide how much money they wish to earn and set their hours accordingly. When the government increases their salaries, they work less but still make the same income as before. Therefore, something that was designed to "increase access" to medical assistance, actually has the completely opposite effect.

Like Dbd33, I have been poor had minimal access to funding and had a wife a two children to support when I put myself through university. It wasn't easy but, fortunately, I was able to see past the next 6 years to a better future so we cut our cloth accordingly.

It is possible and I accept that it is not for everyone but if you keep hoping that life is going to change without implementing that change yourself, you will continue to feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall.

BristolUK

I can't disagree.

However, Oink's point was that the privileged remain privileged with all those steps they have taken, that continue to benefit them.

The others didn't have the option to begin with. Of course, they might be better off had they decided to work but it's not quite the same as the silver spoon, daddy's inheritance, the offshore accounts and all the rest.

paw339

I also think education should be free up to and including university. However I don't think the idea of ever increasing number of people going to university is a good thing, university for university's sake shouldn't be paid for by the public and unnecessary long courses should be reduced in length. The % of graduates working in a job not requiring a degree is rising all the time with up to 40% of recent graduates in non degree level jobs.

BristolUK