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Re: if the scots go, do you care?
I guess we all see and interpret things differently :-)
I don't think anyone believes it's going to be simple and straight forward but they will never know unless they try. Also worth remembering that SNP are just the ones pushing this, they will not necessarily bee the ones in power, would be interesting to see how many parties joined the race for control if did happen? |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by iaink
(Post 11368077)
When the result is a resounding "No" to independence I guess we can all happily conclude that the whole thing was a terrible waste of taxpayers money on both sides.
Will a future UK government locate any vital UK infrastructure projects in Scotland? Will a future UK government fund intrastructure projects in the UK that primarily benefit Scotland? Will a future UK government move public sector jobs out of Scotland to the rest of the UK? If there's a chance of Scotland leaving in the forseeable future after another referendum, any future government would have to take account of that when making such decisions. |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by MarkG
(Post 11368113)
An interesting question is: what happens when and if they do vote 'No'?
Will a future UK government locate any vital UK infrastructure projects in Scotland? Will a future UK government fund intrastructure projects in the UK that primarily benefit Scotland? Will a future UK government move public sector jobs out of Scotland to the rest of the UK? If there's a chance of Scotland leaving in the forseeable future after another referendum, any future government would have to take account of that when making such decisions. If the Quebec experience has taught us anything maybe its that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, or more specifically, preferential government treatment, in order to promote unity, or celebrate the difference or whatever the hell it is supposed to be! |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by MarkG
(Post 11368113)
An interesting question is: what happens when and if they do vote 'No'?
Will a future UK government locate any vital UK infrastructure projects in Scotland? Will a future UK government fund intrastructure projects in the UK that primarily benefit Scotland? Will a future UK government move public sector jobs out of Scotland to the rest of the UK? If there's a chance of Scotland leaving in the forseeable future after another referendum, any future government would have to take account of that when making such decisions. If the UK takes a doom and gloom, pull everything out approach they'll just be playing into the "Yes" campaigns hands. |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by MarkG
(Post 11368113)
An interesting question is: what happens when and if they do vote 'No'?
Will a future UK government locate any vital UK infrastructure projects in Scotland? Will a future UK government fund intrastructure projects in the UK that primarily benefit Scotland? Will a future UK government move public sector jobs out of Scotland to the rest of the UK? If there's a chance of Scotland leaving in the forseeable future after another referendum, any future government would have to take account of that when making such decisions. |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by iaink
(Post 11367940)
What Carney actually said...
Carney Has Contingency Plans for Scottish Independence - Bloomberg BBC News - Scottish independence: Bank of England has referendum contingency plan To my uneducated eye he appears to be saying that if Scotland wants to continue to use the pound (like say El Salvador uses the US$), they can, but the bank of England has at least discussed contingency plans to ensure any impact on the UK economy due to the likelyhood of money draining from scottish based institutions is minimized as much as it can. He also makes it clear its up to the UK politicians to set policy regarding currency union, not him. Not sure what sort of independence it would be when you have no control over your currency and all financial decisions relating to it! |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by neilcumming
(Post 11368144)
Its abit like the relationship the London government has with the Bank of England now methinks
The Bank of England is the lender of last resort to UK banks in distress, but is itself supported by the UK government using tax-payers' money. For example, during the banking crisis in September and October 2008, the Bank of England provided interbank loan guarantees and short-term liquidity, as it must, and was underwritten by the Government to the tune of a couple hundred billion. But it was the Government that injected huge amounts of capital (ultimately owning 85% of the Royal Bank of Scotland, as I'm sure you know) into the system to prevent total disintegration of several UK retail banks. The Bank of England, through the Prudential Regulation Authority, is now also the regulator of UK retail banks and financial markets, since the demise of the FSA in the wake of legislation passed in 2012 (the Financial Conduct Authority now regulates investment advisors etc). If Scotland were to become independent, regardless of Salmond's mythical currency union, there would be no scope for the Bank of England to continue to regulate Scottish banks. Nor would the Westminster government have any interest in bailing out Scottish banks in the event of a run. Neither, of course, would the Financial Policy Committee of the Bank of England be expected to take the interests of an independent Scotland into account when setting interest rate policy in pursuit of UK government targets. How would this be, for Scottish financial institutions, in any way a continuation of the status quo they enjoy under their current protections and regulations? |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by Oakvillian
(Post 11368184)
Youthinks wrong.
The Bank of England is the lender of last resort to UK banks in distress, but is itself supported by the UK government using tax-payers' money. For example, during the banking crisis in September and October 2008, the Bank of England provided interbank loan guarantees and short-term liquidity, as it must, and was underwritten by the Government to the tune of a couple hundred billion. But it was the Government that injected huge amounts of capital (ultimately owning 85% of the Royal Bank of Scotland, as I'm sure you know) into the system to prevent total disintegration of several UK retail banks. The Bank of England, through the Prudential Regulation Authority, is now also the regulator of UK retail banks and financial markets, since the demise of the FSA in the wake of legislation passed in 2012 (the Financial Conduct Authority now regulates investment advisors etc). If Scotland were to become independent, regardless of Salmond's mythical currency union, there would be no scope for the Bank of England to continue to regulate Scottish banks. Nor would the Westminster government have any interest in bailing out Scottish banks in the event of a run. Neither, of course, would the Financial Policy Committee of the Bank of England be expected to take the interests of an independent Scotland into account when setting interest rate policy in pursuit of UK government targets. How would this be, for Scottish financial institutions, in any way a continuation of the status quo they enjoy under their current protections and regulations? |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by Hawk13
(Post 11368250)
Always the doom and gloom followed by why Scotland should just be thankful that the English prop them up. You should hoping that the vote goes "Yes"
I believe it will be very interesting to see what happens if, given the ability to separate, the Scots choose not to do so. One hopes that, should such a situation arise, the Scots will stop their endless complaining about how Westminster doesn't represent "their" interests.:p |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by Hawk13
(Post 11368250)
Always the doom and gloom followed by why Scotland should just be thankful that the English prop them up. You should hoping that the vote goes "Yes"
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Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by iaink
(Post 11368324)
Its not doom and gloom, its a statement of the facts that the leader of the yes campaign seems unable to grasp. And its not the "English" propping anyone up, its the British government, taking care of British interests.
And on the "propping up", if you read the majority of the responses, the impression I get is that Scotland should just be thankful they have it so good 'cus without the south (tried not to use English) they'll absolutely fail. Just saying. |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by Hawk13
(Post 11368352)
Well we are talking about politicians so "facts" can be a little loosie goosie. One side has facts to prove everything will be fantastic while the other has facts proving Scotland will become a third world country - just depends on how you wade through the BS.
And on the "propping up", if you read the majority of the responses, the impression I get is that Scotland should just be thankful they have it so good 'cus without the south (tried not to use English) they'll absolutely fail. Just saying. An independent Scotland needs to replace this system and the guy who is supposed to have these answers is evasive at best,and perhaps delusional at worst when questioned on the details. |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
Originally Posted by Hawk13
(Post 11368352)
Well we are talking about politicians so "facts" can be a little loosie goosie. One side has facts to prove everything will be fantastic while the other has facts proving Scotland will become a third world country - just depends on how you wade through the BS.
And on the "propping up", if you read the majority of the responses, the impression I get is that Scotland should just be thankful they have it so good 'cus without the south (tried not to use English) they'll absolutely fail. Just saying. I've been asked about the independence referendum by quite a few Canadians. They generally seem quite surprised that there would be much of a desire for Scotland to leave the UK. |
Re: if the scots go, do you care?
If it were the other way around and England was voting YES for independence ,I think we Scots and the rUK,Wales and NI would be more than happy to share our pound sterling and the Bank of England ;)
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Re: if the scots go, do you care
Originally Posted by iaink
(Post 11368367)
Seems to me one side has no facts, just a lot of speculation and wishful thinking. Statements regarding how the banking system in the UK is governed dont really seem that open to interpretation?
An independent Scotland needs to replace this system and the guy who is supposed to have these answers is evasive at best,and perhaps delusional at worst when questioned on the details. Wishful thinking to the nth degree. This is what must worry fence-sitters the most. I like the idea of an independent Scotland, and think/assume it could be a success, and if I had a vote would be waiting to hear a stream of compelling arguments in favour. Instead, we get bluster and obfuscation from Salmond and every trick in the book to try and bring about a Yes. On the Union side we get considered economic arguments about why independence MIGHT not be so good for Scotland, and WON'T be so good for rUK, all of which are breezily swept aside by the Nats in some kind of Mel Gibson-sequel charge for identity. With low grade politics coming out of the SNP it does really lead one to wonder what else is in store for Scotland with independence. The currency issue is really the canary in the coal mine. If the SNP can't even debate that properly (where there are perfectly feasible alternatives such as joining the Euro or establishing a pegged Scottish £) it does rather suggest that independence is going to be a very rocky road. |
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