Coronavirus

Old Apr 23rd 2022, 1:33 am
  #6271  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
I refer back to my earlier post that asked if masks aren't effective then why are they used in hospitals? And I don't mean just in the Time of COVID but as part of general infection control practices.
Why is it so hard to wear a mask? They are effective, maybe not 100% because of fit but it's better than nothing. A simple measure that can help others. What is the big deal against wearing them?
I have visited hospitals many times over the years for myself, my wife and my kids. I have never witnessed general mask use unless its someone carrying out a procedure. When i was in for surgery in 2017 there was nobody in my admissions, pre op or after care that had a mask on and at no time during my several day stay did i see anyone attend to me wearing a mask. While in ER pre COVID with my wife that had suspected pneumonia she was asked to put on a mask as she was coughing a lot and wheezing, she was the only one inside that area that had a mask on at that time. If you watch any pre COVID documentary on TV where ER is featured you will see hardly anyone is wearing a mask whilst often dealing with severely ill people. Watching same updated programs filmed in last 2 years everyone is of course wearing one.
In answer to the question what is the big deal, i would say ask the majority of the population that is no longer wearing one whilst out. If it is so easy and such a small thing to do i would expect a much greater uptake on mask wearing particularly as many governments have said they are still "recommended" yet vast numbers of people are clearly happy to be without one, this to me speaks volumes about the whole mask debate. Bristol had said that wearing one makes people think a bit and lets us know there is still infections spreading around the community but of course the reverse of that is that people don't want a constant reminder that this virus is still out there and they are happy to get back to earlier times when masks were something you put on at Halloween.
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Old Apr 23rd 2022, 2:10 am
  #6272  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
I have visited hospitals many times over the years for myself, my wife and my kids. I have never witnessed general mask use unless its someone carrying out a procedure. When i was in for surgery in 2017 there was nobody in my admissions, pre op or after care that had a mask on and at no time during my several day stay did i see anyone attend to me wearing a mask. While in ER pre COVID with my wife that had suspected pneumonia she was asked to put on a mask as she was coughing a lot and wheezing, she was the only one inside that area that had a mask on at that time. If you watch any pre COVID documentary on TV where ER is featured you will see hardly anyone is wearing a mask whilst often dealing with severely ill people. Watching same updated programs filmed in last 2 years everyone is of course wearing one.
In answer to the question what is the big deal, i would say ask the majority of the population that is no longer wearing one whilst out. If it is so easy and such a small thing to do i would expect a much greater uptake on mask wearing particularly as many governments have said they are still "recommended" yet vast numbers of people are clearly happy to be without one, this to me speaks volumes about the whole mask debate. Bristol had said that wearing one makes people think a bit and lets us know there is still infections spreading around the community but of course the reverse of that is that people don't want a constant reminder that this virus is still out there and they are happy to get back to earlier times when masks were something you put on at Halloween.
I've worked in hospitals since 1973 so I may have more experience of mask use in them than you do.

What I'm getting from this si that most people have no clue about the effectiveness of masks as they've mostly only seen them on the telly. Your wife was asked to wear one when she was infectious to protect others, Not every sick person is infectious and if they are highly infectious or immunocompromised then they are isolated. That's in a separate room where staff who go in wear PPE appropriate to the illness. At my last hospital, and at the medical centre, reception had a box of masks asking you to wear one if you had a cough or cold symptoms etc.


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Old Apr 23rd 2022, 1:54 pm
  #6273  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Bristol had said that wearing one makes people think a bit and lets us know there is still infections spreading around the community but of course the reverse of that is that people don't want a constant reminder that this virus is still out there and they are happy to get back to earlier times when masks were something you put on at Halloween.
I don't disagree although I'd amend the underlined part. It's not that they don't want a reminder it's still out there, more that they don't want to think it's still out there and this is what's being encouraged..

Protect the vulnerable - gone
Avoid medical services being overwhelmed - gone
Avoid or at least reduce the chances of the virus spreading - gone

People are behaving and encouraged to behave as if those things no longer matter.

"We knew when we raised the speed limit that there would be more injuries and deaths on the road. It's nothing unexpected. Nobody wants to go back to the old speed limits."

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Old Apr 23rd 2022, 4:13 pm
  #6274  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I don't disagree although I'd amend the underlined part. It's not that they don't want a reminder it's still out there, more that they don't want to think it's still out there and this is what's being encouraged..

Protect the vulnerable - gone
Avoid medical services being overwhelmed - gone
Avoid or at least reduce the chances of the virus spreading - gone

People are behaving and encouraged to behave as if those things no longer matter.

"We knew when we raised the speed limit that there would be more injuries and deaths on the road. It's nothing unexpected. Nobody wants to go back to the old speed limits."
Fair comment. But given that the virus is definitely still around, and may surge again in Fall, maybe this current laxity is a kind of pressure valve ? Not sure. What's Bristol's mask/SD protocol at present ?
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Old Apr 24th 2022, 1:29 am
  #6275  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BristolUK
I don't disagree although I'd amend the underlined part. It's not that they don't want a reminder it's still out there, more that they don't want to think it's still out there and this is what's being encouraged..

Protect the vulnerable - gone
Avoid medical services being overwhelmed - gone
Avoid or at least reduce the chances of the virus spreading - gone

People are behaving and encouraged to behave as if those things no longer matter.

"We knew when we raised the speed limit that there would be more injuries and deaths on the road. It's nothing unexpected. Nobody wants to go back to the old speed limits."
Well yes but protect the vulnerable can be achieved by vaccination, wearing a mask and limiting contacts in crowded places. I'm pretty sure those that are feeling vulnerable or immunocompromised are doing this to protect themselves best they can because we cannot rely on others to protect us forever.
Medical service have been overwhelmed since forever and prior to COVID every flu season was a challenge and staff being overworked and underpaid has been the subject of much debate over the years.
Reduce the chances of the virus spreading has in effect gone yes but difficult to see how that could be reversed without reverting to more stringent rules and not just adding back in a mask mandate.
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Old Apr 24th 2022, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Well yes but protect the vulnerable can be achieved by vaccination, wearing a mask and limiting contacts in crowded places. I'm pretty sure those that are feeling vulnerable or immunocompromised are doing this to protect themselves best they can because we cannot rely on others to protect us forever.
Omicron is proving more infectious. Mask wearing is protecting the vulnerable only if worn by the vast majority not vulnerable people and if they are not doing that then the vulnerable are not as well protected as they could be.



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Old Apr 25th 2022, 12:02 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BristolUK
Omicron is proving more infectious. Mask wearing is protecting the vulnerable only if worn by the vast majority not vulnerable people and if they are not doing that then the vulnerable are not as well protected as they could be.
Yes that may be what we are being told and of course i cannot disagree that both parties wearing a mask is better than one. But we have never lived our lives protecting others as such. We have to look out for ourselves because we cannot rely on other people to do it for us. In the early stages when vulnerable people were dropping like flies we all did our best to shield them from harm. Now that vaccines have played a part and good quality masks are easily available there is less need to continue down this path. We know that in an ideal world everyone will look out for and care for others but this isn't reality in todays world. To make a point when this was in its early stages with delta variant anyone in a care home was at serious risk and many many didn't survive. My mother has been in a care home in UK for few months, she is vaccinated as are the others. Her and 7 other residents all tested positive a week ago, none had any serious symptoms, none required medical attention and all have since got over it. This would have been a totally different outcome prior to vaccines and the Omicron variant, so even though it is more infectious it is not causing the same issues. I cannot deny that there are still too many deaths occurring in UK right now but i am not sure that general mask use would have made a huge difference in this figure without bringing in other measures alongside, this then becomes more of a political game than anything else.
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Old Apr 25th 2022, 12:42 am
  #6278  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Yes that may be what we are being told and of course i cannot disagree that both parties wearing a mask is better than one. But we have never lived our lives protecting others as such. We have to look out for ourselves because we cannot rely on other people to do it for us. In the early stages when vulnerable people were dropping like flies we all did our best to shield them from harm. Now that vaccines have played a part and good quality masks are easily available there is less need to continue down this path. We know that in an ideal world everyone will look out for and care for others but this isn't reality in todays world. To make a point when this was in its early stages with delta variant anyone in a care home was at serious risk and many many didn't survive. My mother has been in a care home in UK for few months, she is vaccinated as are the others. Her and 7 other residents all tested positive a week ago, none had any serious symptoms, none required medical attention and all have since got over it. This would have been a totally different outcome prior to vaccines and the Omicron variant, so even though it is more infectious it is not causing the same issues. I cannot deny that there are still too many deaths occurring in UK right now but i am not sure that general mask use would have made a huge difference in this figure without bringing in other measures alongside, this then becomes more of a political game than anything else.
We do live our lives protecting others, by getting vaccinated, by covering our mouths when we sneeze or cough, observing generaal good manners, paying taxes that contribute to welfare, universal healthcare, pensions. masking is just good manners.
If you want to be purely selfish about this then perhaps you'll consider that the amount of non critical COVID illness around is impacting the provision of non COVID healthcare because staff are off on sickleave.
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Old Apr 25th 2022, 12:48 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

In my community no one cared about protecting the vulnerable since the original outbreak or since. I learned early that if I wanted to live it would be up to me to do everything in my human power to stay alive by whatever measures I could manage. It hasn't been easy.
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Old Apr 25th 2022, 1:43 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
We do live our lives protecting others, by getting vaccinated, by covering our mouths when we sneeze or cough, observing generaal good manners, paying taxes that contribute to welfare, universal healthcare, pensions. masking is just good manners.
If you want to be purely selfish about this then perhaps you'll consider that the amount of non critical COVID illness around is impacting the provision of non COVID healthcare because staff are off on sickleave.
But to suggest that general good manners is practiced by all is incorrect. Plenty of non taxpayers and offshore rich guys who do not follow the rules, vaccination is by no means 100% and i would suggest that booster shots going forward will have a smaller uptake than prior. If masking is good manners then why is it only now we are being chastised for not doing so? Why weren't you and others wearing one prior to COVID whenever you entered a busy building, a medical facility or were feeling off colour? What is good manners about throwing on a mask to grab some groceries but removing it to sit in the pub for 2 hours with a mix of people? Good manners would be staying well away from people if you are sick and not going out. Good manners is stopping at a red light, observing the speed limit, not using your phone while driving yet all of these are regularly ignored on a daily basis and all could lead to injury for others
Staff are off on sick leave because it's been hammered home that going into work whilst feeling ill is a big fat NO in 2022. In 2018 it was considered acceptable to turn up because the company needed you and it's just a cold/sore throat or whatever, in fact you were frowned upon if you took too many sick days, now we are giving people free sick days with no real consequence. Back in the day a doctors sick note was required to get paid time off, many of us didn't get paid if we took time off so we did what we had to. Whilst the latest rules may be a good thing for employees everywhere it's creating a problem that's difficult to manage especially if a percentage of those sick do not even have COVID. Better safe than sorry maybe but its causing huge problems and not just in healthcare. Almost everywhere you go now there are signs saying "hiring" companies are struggling to recruit but why? Where have the workforce gone? Why is every tire dealer in my town looking for techs? I'm sure they didn't all die from COVID or get burned out from overwork. I can understand the hospitality industry was badly hit and some have changed career but the lack of employees goes much deeper than restaurant servers and chefs. Interestingly a friend said today that when he went to Home Depot the other week he noticed all staff had masks so he went back to truck and got his mask as he felt it was good manners yet he would have continued to shop without one had staff not been wearing them.
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Old Apr 25th 2022, 1:42 pm
  #6281  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

I see that there is evidence from England that is 2 months old that showed that, by then, pre-Omircon 2 (or whatever it is called) that was far more transmissable and also not accounting for the relaxation of restrictions, over 70% of the people in England had had covid. I suspect that that figure is now far higher. In light of this, who are we protecting that are unable to protect themselves?
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Old Apr 25th 2022, 7:38 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Yes that may be what we are being told and of course i cannot disagree that both parties wearing a mask is better than one. But we have never lived our lives protecting others as such.
I'm not sure we ever had to, although there were some similar measures introduced for Spanish flu from googling.
Wars maybe? People joining up to fight or conscripted.
We have to look out for ourselves because we cannot rely on other people to do it for us.
Surely that's what governments are for. Welfare, education,health systems, stuff like that.
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Old Apr 26th 2022, 5:17 pm
  #6283  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

sigh. i just don;t understand why wering a mask is so difficult. Its not s if youre being asked to wear an underwired bra one size too small.
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Old Apr 27th 2022, 12:12 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by bats
sigh. i just don;t understand why wering a mask is so difficult. Its not s if youre being asked to wear an underwired bra one size too small.
Maybe it's not, particularly if you wear it for short periods. Maybe it's a much bigger ask if you have to wear it ALL day in your job. Maybe being a dentist mask use daily is pretty normal but working in a bank or a grocery store it's not and never has been. You are asking people to wear something that they may find irritating and stuffy for long periods but during the early days of the virus most people got on with it best they could because they believed there was an end in sight and it wouldn't be forever. Now since most mask mandates have been lifted around the world i would say the majority are not in favour of reinstating them. Take a look at how many people out and about do not have one on and that will tell you how unpopular they really were. We are still free to wear one if we choose so why do we need this constant pressure from some groups to force us all to put them back on when we know that this will not bring down the case counts to any significant degree without other restrictions.
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Old Apr 27th 2022, 12:59 am
  #6285  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Maybe it's not, particularly if you wear it for short periods. Maybe it's a much bigger ask if you have to wear it ALL day in your job. Maybe being a dentist mask use daily is pretty normal but working in a bank or a grocery store it's not and never has been. You are asking people to wear something that they may find irritating and stuffy for long periods but during the early days of the virus most people got on with it best they could because they believed there was an end in sight and it wouldn't be forever. Now since most mask mandates have been lifted around the world i would say the majority are not in favour of reinstating them. Take a look at how many people out and about do not have one on and that will tell you how unpopular they really were. We are still free to wear one if we choose so why do we need this constant pressure from some groups to force us all to put them back on when we know that this will not bring down the case counts to any significant degree without other restrictions.
Times change, things move on, stuff gets learned. i still see masks being worn and as per my cardiologist I will be wearing one in public places even when/if ll this is over,,

Anyway I give up.
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