India and the Wars
Feb 2nd 2019, 8:01 am
#31
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Re: India and the Wars
Of course not Bipat, you did not claim I insulted those who fought for the allies.
It was just my imagination, not your words in your post.
I apologise for not being able to read what you wrote..
I never claimed that British soldiers with guns did not exist in Indai.
Why do you bring every discussion down to a he said ,she said level instead of dealing with facts..
It was just my imagination, not your words in your post.
I apologise for not being able to read what you wrote..
I never claimed that British soldiers with guns did not exist in Indai.
Why do you bring every discussion down to a he said ,she said level instead of dealing with facts..
I assumed your Inla meant India! Just as your above 'Indai' I presume means India.
Your post in reply to Scot47 Post no.2
"Facts which contradict the views of others who claim that it was British troops who ruled and occupied pre-Independence India at gunpoint".
Could I ask you again EMR----why as a staunch 'Remainer' do you (and your twin Morpeth) constantly excuse and support Empire rule when this is supposed to be a 'Leaver' trait??
Feb 2nd 2019, 8:05 am
#32
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Re: India and the Wars
EMR---as I have said before your spelling and reading are something which I appreciate your courage in taking part in posting.
I assumed your Inla meant India! Just as your above 'Indai' I presume means India.
Your post in reply to Scot47 Post no.2
"Facts which contradict the views of others who claim that it was British troops who ruled and occupied pre-Independence India at gunpoint".
Could I ask you again EMR----why as a staunch 'Remainer' do you (and your twin Morpeth) constantly excuse and support Empire rule when this is supposed to be a 'Leaver' trait??
I assumed your Inla meant India! Just as your above 'Indai' I presume means India.
Your post in reply to Scot47 Post no.2
"Facts which contradict the views of others who claim that it was British troops who ruled and occupied pre-Independence India at gunpoint".
Could I ask you again EMR----why as a staunch 'Remainer' do you (and your twin Morpeth) constantly excuse and support Empire rule when this is supposed to be a 'Leaver' trait??
We just use facts,the thousands of books, millions and millions of written words, eye witness reports dating back 100s of years to counter your odd views of history..
Feb 2nd 2019, 8:22 am
#33
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Re: India and the Wars
Neither of us are Empire supporters, every time you make your fantastical claims you make yourself appear even more silly and ridulous.
We just use facts,the thousands of books, millions and millions of written words, eye witness reports dating back 100s of years to counter your odd views of history..
We just use facts,the thousands of books, millions and millions of written words, eye witness reports dating back 100s of years to counter your odd views of history..
EMR you select the "facts" which support your pro-British ideas. "Thousands of books"--- when did you have time and why your obsession with the place?
You ignore the eye witness reports I give you ----mine and the many 100s of those I know or have known!!!
What "odd views" ????
Feb 2nd 2019, 8:25 am
#34
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Re: India and the Wars
Morpeth I was replying to EMR who seems to be under the opinion that British soldiers (with guns) did not exist in British India. I did not say 'only Indians can give facts'. I have said only Indians can give ;'facts' about how their own lives were affected.
Yourself and EMR seem to think only the British can give genuine observations, with Indians it is "folk memory" or "over the wall" gossip!!
As I pointed out I know that soldiers existed complete with guns- in our town (that I have just left)---I know the man who bought their barracks!!!! I am British!! So I am sure therefore you can both believe me!!
(Would the UK like to return to its traditions of 150 years ago?)
Yourself and EMR seem to think only the British can give genuine observations, with Indians it is "folk memory" or "over the wall" gossip!!
As I pointed out I know that soldiers existed complete with guns- in our town (that I have just left)---I know the man who bought their barracks!!!! I am British!! So I am sure therefore you can both believe me!!
(Would the UK like to return to its traditions of 150 years ago?)
I dont know if EMR was denying the British had guns, but the historical fact that the British were able to manage India with so few British civil servants and soldiers- a remarkable achievement.
An objective analysis of the positive and negative effects f British rule would consider where India was before the British rule arrived and where society was going at that time, vs where India is at today and how much of that is due to British rule and Western influence. Certainly Indians I would suppose not wish t give up the benefits.
Feb 2nd 2019, 8:34 am
#35
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Re: India and the Wars
ANY dividing line would have been faced with the similar problems. As you yourself have pointed out India has a myriad of ethnic and religious groups though sharing some common history, Like the Balkans or Central Asia very complex to have precise and reasonable dividing lines. There is enough blame to spread around-the British government policies, and Indian political leaders not advocating a much slower process towards independence. .
India basically no different than the British in using force to impose it political will.
Feb 2nd 2019, 8:45 am
#36
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Re: India and the Wars
On another thread I disagreed strongly with EMR on an area of history where he had strong views but in my opinion based on limited study of the issue- but for him to be accused of some bias against India or not seeking to back up his views, I think is unfair. For those who havent followed his ongoing debate with Bipat on India , he has tried to back-up his views against the extreme Indian patriotism of Bipat who generally disregards any evidence that contradicts Indian patriotism and PC conventional views.Though I must respect that Bipat has sought to integrate and adopt the views of those in her adopted country.
Feb 2nd 2019, 9:25 am
#37
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Re: India and the Wars
Actually Bipat you have before discounted observations made by the British whi were in India, but your clarification that Indians can express their own feelings better than others how they felt is understandable.
I dont know if EMR was denying the British had guns, but the historical fact that the British were able to manage India with so few British civil servants and soldiers- a remarkable achievement.
An objective analysis of the positive and negative effects f British rule would consider where India was before the British rule arrived and where society was going at that time, vs where India is at today and how much of that is due to British rule and Western influence. Certainly Indians I would suppose not wish t give up the benefits.
I dont know if EMR was denying the British had guns, but the historical fact that the British were able to manage India with so few British civil servants and soldiers- a remarkable achievement.
An objective analysis of the positive and negative effects f British rule would consider where India was before the British rule arrived and where society was going at that time, vs where India is at today and how much of that is due to British rule and Western influence. Certainly Indians I would suppose not wish t give up the benefits.
Morpeth think about it-----you are an ordinary person born into a situation where your country is ruled by another, thousands of miles away, what can you do about it??
You grow up, as everywhere do the best you can in life ---you are not going to protest and mess up everything! You accept the reality of he situation and earn a living. They didn't need many soldiers.
As I have said 'on the ground' the relationships were often cordial and mutually accepting. OH quite liked being taught the works of Thomas Hardy at school.
He was proud to know that British lawyers brought their students to hear the eloquent speeches of his grandfather the chief prosecutor of the area. He admired the Scottish tutors at his college.
That doesn't excuse 'foreign rule by force'! If you don't like the word 'force' why did the British not just 'leave'!!
What was India like before?-----what was UK like at that time-----the poverty, the workhouses, deportation of children, hanging!!
What "benefits" are they not giving up?
Feb 2nd 2019, 9:40 am
#38
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Re: India and the Wars
Actually not such a strange idea that there is 'historical truth'just how one progresses towards the most probable understanding of the 'truth' of the path- whether from emotional limited study, or more objective and complete study. You may wish to read the 'Landscape of History' by Gaddis on the subject.​​​​​​
On another thread I disagreed strongly with EMR on an area of history where he had strong views but in my opinion based on limited study of the issue- but for him to be accused of some bias against India or not seeking to back up his views, I think is unfair. For those who havent followed his ongoing debate with Bipat on India , he has tried to back-up his views against the extreme Indian patriotism of Bipat who generally disregards any evidence that contradicts Indian patriotism and PC conventional views.Though I must respect that Bipat has sought to integrate and adopt the views of those in her adopted country.
On another thread I disagreed strongly with EMR on an area of history where he had strong views but in my opinion based on limited study of the issue- but for him to be accused of some bias against India or not seeking to back up his views, I think is unfair. For those who havent followed his ongoing debate with Bipat on India , he has tried to back-up his views against the extreme Indian patriotism of Bipat who generally disregards any evidence that contradicts Indian patriotism and PC conventional views.Though I must respect that Bipat has sought to integrate and adopt the views of those in her adopted country.
"Extreme patriotism"-----or actually knowing the reality.
Just for once answer a question; have I repeatedly said to you "I could write pages of what is wrong with India"???
"Adopted" country, "sought to integrate"!!------This an expat Forum-----isn't that what people who have a home away from their birth country do?? Isn't that what you keep saying migrants to the UK should do???
'Bipat' Bi----means two. Two countries, two sets of relatives, two sets of friends, children who are of both!!!
The repeated criticism of those who have no actual present day local knowledge is just irritating. (Oh sorry EMR has just spent three weeks there, that should result in a definitive book!!)
Feb 2nd 2019, 2:48 pm
#39
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Re: India and the Wars
EMR you select the "facts" which support your pro-British ideas. "Thousands of books"--- when did you have time and why your obsession with the place?
You ignore the eye witness reports I give you ----mine and the many 100s of those I know or have known!!!
What "odd views" ????
You ignore the eye witness reports I give you ----mine and the many 100s of those I know or have known!!!
What "odd views" ????
If you go to London you will see armed soldiers, dies this mean on your mind that the UK is also ruled at gunpoint..
Not pro British, pro facts , which is an issue you have always struggled with.
I leave you to continue your time in the modern independent state if India that owes its existence to the period of British rule with its infrastructure , education, legal basis, political stability etc, etc .
It would be nice to have a thread Bipat when you did not invent the views of others , and indulge in fantasues andcfact denial..
Feb 2nd 2019, 3:49 pm
#40
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Re: India and the Wars
I do not ignore your eye witness report, just put then in the context of the observations taking place during a global war when of course e soldiers would carry guns.
If you go to London you will see armed soldiers, dies this mean on your mind that the UK is also ruled at gunpoint..
Not pro British, pro facts , which is an issue you have always struggled with.
I leave you to continue your time in the modern independent state if India that owes its existence to the period of British rule with its infrastructure , education, legal basis, political stability etc, etc .
It would be nice to have a thread Bipat when you did not invent the views of others , and indulge in fantasues andcfact denial..
If you go to London you will see armed soldiers, dies this mean on your mind that the UK is also ruled at gunpoint..
Not pro British, pro facts , which is an issue you have always struggled with.
I leave you to continue your time in the modern independent state if India that owes its existence to the period of British rule with its infrastructure , education, legal basis, political stability etc, etc .
It would be nice to have a thread Bipat when you did not invent the views of others , and indulge in fantasues andcfact denial..
EMR 'facts'----- the soldiers didn't just arrive in India during "global wars". Even you must know that!!
Even our own historic town which was expanded by the British from a village and turned into the N. Kanara area capital in mid-1800s had soldiers since then! Fact from personal knowledge.
(The London soldiers are for protection of their own people------the British soldiers in India were for keeping peace, protecting the British property, ensuring the apartheid---not protecting the local community!!!)
The modern State of India has made use of and changed and adapted and built FROM that which the British had built for THEMSELVES -- Some of it very useful some not-----still laws in process of repeal. No one has said that much was not useful or that everything was bad!
Think about it EMR before British rule, India was a wealthy country, at Independence it was 'poor', with 80-90% poverty. Explain the taxation, land take, exports to the UK etc.!!
What views of others have I invented----yours and Morpeth's are fairly obvious. You continue to support Empire occupation and ignore its faults, your above post does just that.
Feb 2nd 2019, 3:57 pm
#41
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Posts: 26,724
Re: India and the Wars
EMR 'facts'----- the soldiers didn't just arrive in India during "global wars". Even you must know that!!
Even our own historic town which was expanded by the British from a village and turned into the N. Kanara area capital in mid-1800s had soldiers since then! Fact from personal knowledge.
(The London soldiers are for protection of their own people------the British soldiers in India were for keeping peace, protecting the British property, ensuring the apartheid---not protecting the local community!!!)
The modern State of India has made use of and changed and adapted and built FROM that which the British had built for THEMSELVES -- Some of it very useful some not-----still laws in process of repeal. No one has said that much was not useful or that everything was bad!
Think about it EMR before British rule, India was a wealthy country, at Independence it was 'poor', with 80-90% poverty. Explain the taxation, land take, exports to the UK etc.!!
What views of others have I invented----yours and Morpeth's are fairly obvious. You continue to support Empire occupation and ignore its faults, your above post does just that.
Even our own historic town which was expanded by the British from a village and turned into the N. Kanara area capital in mid-1800s had soldiers since then! Fact from personal knowledge.
(The London soldiers are for protection of their own people------the British soldiers in India were for keeping peace, protecting the British property, ensuring the apartheid---not protecting the local community!!!)
The modern State of India has made use of and changed and adapted and built FROM that which the British had built for THEMSELVES -- Some of it very useful some not-----still laws in process of repeal. No one has said that much was not useful or that everything was bad!
Think about it EMR before British rule, India was a wealthy country, at Independence it was 'poor', with 80-90% poverty. Explain the taxation, land take, exports to the UK etc.!!
What views of others have I invented----yours and Morpeth's are fairly obvious. You continue to support Empire occupation and ignore its faults, your above post does just that.
If you can provide evidence in the last 1500 years that what exis now existed through out those 1500 years we can end this discussion for once and all..
You last sentence would prove to even a one celled organism that you are indeed the queen of invention fantasy and fact denial..
Feb 2nd 2019, 5:03 pm
#42
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Re: India and the Wars
I will leave you to rewrite history.
If you can provide evidence in the last 1500 years that what exis now existed through out those 1500 years we can end this discussion for once and all..
You last sentence would prove to even a one celled organism that you are indeed the queen of invention fantasy and fact denial..
If you can provide evidence in the last 1500 years that what exis now existed through out those 1500 years we can end this discussion for once and all..
You last sentence would prove to even a one celled organism that you are indeed the queen of invention fantasy and fact denial..
What exists in any country now, that existed throughout 1500 years ago???
If you don't support the British occupation of India why do you keep putting posts on this (and other threads) praising it?
Feb 2nd 2019, 5:08 pm
#43
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Re: India and the Wars
The period of British rule is responsible for the creation of modern India..
It's taken God knows how many post , how many facts but it has finally sunk in with you..
Feb 2nd 2019, 5:27 pm
#44
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Re: India and the Wars
In other words modern 20th century India developed when the British LEFT.
As I said no country exists as it did 1,500 years ago, the Romans left the UK (India had education and advanced civilisation!!)
(And you still say you are not praising the Empire!!!!!)
Last edited by Bipat; Feb 2nd 2019 at 5:30 pm.
Feb 2nd 2019, 6:02 pm
#45
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Re: India and the Wars
EMR can you not read a simple sentence. I said what exists now DIDN'T exist 70 years ago!!!!!!
In other words modern 20th century India developed when the British LEFT.
As I said no country exists as it did 1,500 years ago, the Romans left the UK (India had education and advanced civilisation!!)
(And you still say you are not praising the Empire!!!!!)
In other words modern 20th century India developed when the British LEFT.
As I said no country exists as it did 1,500 years ago, the Romans left the UK (India had education and advanced civilisation!!)
(And you still say you are not praising the Empire!!!!!)
The modern state of India owes its existence to the period of British rule.
FACT , FACT, FACT..
Stop inventing and fantasising.
You claim to be an intelligent woman, start acting like..one..