Bipat

What facts?
The facts are EMR that there are 29 States, wheat mainly grown in the north.
I know what you have said about modern pesticides/seed/machinery etc. etc You are just considering the large scale production farmers.
The majority of farmers as I have told you are small farmers growing vegetables and rice +or- trees are you saying they don't matter? Don't you consider them farmers! Bit of an insultThey buy the seed etc. that they can afford.
Are you forgetting the Mango crop/coconuts-----the latter price has dropped. Off the trees ours got 12rps each !
It will be different everywhere.
These small farmers provide for themselves and sell in local markets.
Each area/State is different, regarding weather soil etc. Monsoon dates.

What is it you don't understand or dispute?

EMR

Can I suggest you go back and st at again.
You are cleary very confused.
You started a discussion about Famines, have had your claim that it was the British, not the Weather, different crops, Tec Tec that caused them disproved , how'd you meander into Mangos.
I really am starting to get worried about you.., I do not understand your current confused state of mind,.

Bipat

EMR----Weather creates drought-----famine is millions dying without food during a drought. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...g_British_rule

Mangoes are a CROP. A valuable crop. Crops are produced by farmers!!!!!!!
https://www.asiafarming.com/mango-fa...rmation-guide/

EMR the weather is very important to Mango farmers-----early rain when the flowers are setting destroys the crop.

Are you incapable of understanding differences ----different States/climate/geography/soil/crops/size of farm area/market prices etc. etc.

YOU introduced the topic of crops.

EMR

All of which has got nothing to do with your claims that Famines were caused by British rule.?
I will explain again as clearly you have not got your brain in tonight.
One of the reasons for fewer famines globally not just in India is the new varieties of crops, etc developed in the second hslf of 20th century..
Crops which were not available in India during the period of British rule and in the centuries before when famines were not unusual

Bipat

The tragedy of the famines was not the crop failure but the DEATHS. The lack of help and continued export of grain etc.

I have tried to point out to you that the majority of small farmers in India are not having access to all new varieties of crops or machinery, there is still drought ---still crop failure, poor monsoons and floods but not the millions of deaths.
You have no understanding of the farming methods of the small time Indian farmers. Do you know how long it takes to grow the plants/trees for fruit crops?

British rule did not cause the droughts or crop failure but the inherent poverty and lack of aid caused the great number of deaths, some of the Princes were also to blame in the same way and remember cattle also died so there was no milk.

Why do you go on and on excusing the Empires for everything they did, but on the TIO threads accuse Brexiters of wanting an Empire 2 ????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876–1878

Read the last two paragraphs.

EMR

Who was responsible for the famines in the 2000 years before British rule., or in your strange view of India they did not happen.
I deal in facts, you deal in nonsense which is why it is so difficult to take your views seriously,
Man is not responsible for the Weather, which is one of the main causes of famines even the British do not pay claim to that..
The small farmers in India do have access to the new crops, that is why food production has increased ..
You really do not know as much about India as you would have us believe.

Bipat

2,000 years ago what was happening in the UK then. You really are becoming ridiculous EMR.

EMR I have told you it is the DEATHS which we are discussing, DEATHS. Not the weather. Can you not understand that there are STILL droughts STILL CROP FAILURES, but NOT MILLIONS OF DEATHS. The poverty and deliberate lack of aid caused millions of deaths.
Did you read the link and the accusations of "colonial genocide"?

How many small time farmers do you know-----there are millions of them. What can you grow on 26 guntas? Food production has mainly increased because of the increasingly sophisticated large scale farming----using the methods you describe.
I suppose you have no idea of the waste happening in transporting and storing. Just like Morpeth you have no idea what you should be criticising.

Tell me some FACTS then EMR when can we expect the monsoon to start in our area south west coast, Then I can let everyone know they will be so grateful to you.

EMR

Still rambling on about monsoons.
Your hypocrasy about deaths us appalling.
Yes there were famines during British rule, and in India since.
One day you will wake up and realise that we now live in the 21st Century with different values, massive advances in technology , infrastructure, crops, fertilisers, etc , massivenot available in the 19th century .., .
look up Norman Borlaug the Nobel prize winner whose work was a massive contribution to reducing famine and starvation in India.
A man whose work contributed to the club,ing of wheat production in India.
These new seeds were not developed uNtil the 1960s not the 1860S.

Who knows how many tens ,100s millions died during the periods when India was a collection of disparate , rival warring states. Should we focus on them.

Ignoarnce is Bipat, you only present a poor image of your adopted country.

Bipat

EMR your simplistic thoughts based on ignorance!!
If you spent any time in India you would know the importance of monsoons and the economy.
Did you read the link and the accusations of colonial genocide?
This thread is about those times.

Apart from the 1951 Bihar famine there has been nothing like that since-----EMR can you not get it into your head---the weather is the SAME.
People have more money they have medical help. They have 'benefits' basic food allowance for the low income.
During the Raj they had 'nothing'! including no cattle.

Why do you keep excusing and denying everything? It was 'then' not 'now'! Just so hypocritical from a 'Remainer'!

----I know the major advances that you go on about. All do not get them, the SMALL farmers don't just grow one type of crop. How much can they grow on two acres---they can't rotate crops. The new seeds are expensive; crop failure means debt, you claim to know so much about a country you have spent three whole weeks in---you must have read about farmer suicides. (Actually that happens in the UK also!)

The difference now from the Raj, I repeat, is that the ruling government gives aid. The Congress party also promises to cancel all the farmer debt if it comes to power (unlikely).

You are copying the words of your 'twin' poster-----I have not "adopted" any country. This an expat Forum we all live somewhere other than the UK!

(Oh, for you interest our monsoon starts on 7th June----amazing how the date can be so accurate (most years)!!! Why don't you visit during that time and learn something? Or even visit next month when mangoes are harvested----coconuts already down!!
What is your learned opinion of the new dwarf coconut trees?)

Millhouse

Bipat - may I ask which bit of India you're"from"/ married into?

EMR

You really do need to do your research before posting.
India was a massive recipient of food aid in 50s and 60s,., distributed by the Indian government..
The massive road and rail systems not existent in the 1870s, but built in the last 150 years.
These and many other factors contributed to the ability to get food to where it was needed., which did not exist in the 1870s.

You clearly do not want to have a fact based discussion.
Only a complete idiot and ignoramous , dismisses and ignores facts, history, changing views , scientific advances etc.
Are you really a complete idiot and ignoramus..
Dwarf coconut trees, like the " green revolution " thanks to non Indians , that helped India feed itself from the 1960s onwards, just part of the continuing development of the advances in agriculture .

scot47

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

Between two and three million dead. Is it surprising that many of the subjects of the King-Emperor put their faith in the Netanji and "Azad Hind" ? The surprising aspect of this period is that the whole ramshackle Raj held together for as long as it did - from 1857 until the end in 1947. Of course much was positive in the imperialist exploitation and develop[ement of the sSub-continent, but lket us not forget the dark and bitter side.

Bipat

EMR---the title of the thread is------- 'India and the wars'.

Nobody is ignoring scientific advances-----just putting it into the reality of a country you know nothing about or know about the everyday life of the present day poor.

(The majority of 'roads' have been built since 1947; yes you are correct about the inherited rail system which was built for the British themselves (remember the apartheid---'natives' in separate compartments!!)

EMR--- I must ask you why are you so obsessed with India ----every thread and post that is put here you immediately put your second hand views. Why???
Morpeth, at least has parents who were there in their Raj capacity-----you had not set foot in the place until your recent short holiday!

Bipat

Yes I agree with your above post. ------I don't mention the Bengal famine-----EMR will come back with the 'it was war-time' excuse and that there was partial government by the Bengalis themselves.

EMR

You are right, historical fact., Don,t expect Bipat to read the entire article and research the facts and opinions in it..
Distribution of food , state government was the responsibility of the elected Indian, Bengal government, and yes there was a global war on, it was in all the papers..
I do not live in your fact denying bubble inhabited by pink unicorns where what is now India pre and post British rule was and is inhabited by happy laughing people, who had everything they needed, led the world in industrial and scientific development, where there was no religious , ethnic, caste, gender persecution or prejudice., genocides by Indian rulers and the wave of invaders in its 2000 years of history.
In Bipat world all that arrived with the British ..