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Second Class Citizen

Second Class Citizen

Old Jun 20th 2019, 1:22 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Sounds like Langford,or your job, or Canada just aren't/isn't for you. Must admit Bear Mountain wouldn't have been my first choice (in fact it wasn't), but to feel second class at home and at work, sounds like this just isn't the right place for you. Good luck on the move back to the UK. I could imagine us living in Dorset had we stayed in the UK.
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Old Jun 20th 2019, 5:20 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

The title of this thread more or less describes what its like to be a renter in BC, so many see those of us that renter as 2nd class, not as important as the mighty landowners.

OP- if Canada isn't working out, only you know what is best for you, gotta do what you gotta do to stay happy.
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Old Jun 20th 2019, 10:25 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
"getoutofbritain". Maybe you will head back to that country of which you said - "There is no leadership in the UK anymore. Politicians lie every day and is seen as an acceptable part of politics so what chance do the rest stand?"
Show me a country where that doesn't happen. The key problem with the UK IMHO is that people expect far too much from their politicians and government in the first place.
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Old Jun 20th 2019, 10:30 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Where do you think will be the next place you can't wait to get out of?
They mention a fondness for America. Unfortunately it's highly unlikely they would be able to immigrate there because I would love to read their opinions on daily life in Trumpland a couple of years down the line.
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Old Jun 20th 2019, 10:35 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by raindropsandroses View Post
I agree, I've experienced the same and even had some pretty disgusting comments from knobheads who couldn't see anything wrong with what they were saying.

A lot of friends and acquaintances were very vocal about how much "Canadian money" was being spent on my treatment when I fell ill, amd since I've recovered, about how that money could have been spent on Canadians, many of them told my husband and I that I shouldn't have been treated, despite knowing that I would have died otherwise.

Its very hurtful, more so when its said at BBQs and the like, casually in front of our young child who can't understand why Mommy's friends didn't think she was worth the cash to save her life. From people I thought were very close friends. Surely even if you thought it you wouldn't have the gall to say it?

I think Canada does talk a good game, and I think the laws and regulations protecting people against discrimination go further than most countries, but that's very different to the actual people holding the mindset to uphold those laws and challenge discrimination.
FIFY.

Honestly though, why would you even continue to socialise with ignorant people like that? They're almost certainly not worth your time.
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Old Jun 22nd 2019, 12:47 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
FIFY.

Honestly though, why would you even continue to socialise with ignorant people like that? They're almost certainly not worth your time.
Thanks, yep that is more accurate .

To be accurate, I don't consider them friends anymore, neither does my husband, but when your kid is good friends with their kid, or goes to hobbies and activities with them I am polite and civil for the Sprog's sake. The joys of being a parent, no? It does make me sad though, I just don't get it.

Sprog, on the other hand, is very outspoken whenever comments are made, quite remarkable how fast people clam up their nasty comments when questioned by a child

Thanks Jimmy too
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Old Jun 24th 2019, 11:09 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Not in my experience. Canada is a very inclusive culture
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 2:34 am
  #53  
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ffffffff I thought long and hard about this thread and yes I WAS used as a second class citizen on my TWP ,things changed after PR but listening to people giving stick etc to fellow workers that were TWP s gets old quickly and the "send them all home" crew at camps and coffee shops would say ahhh but youre Scottish so that's all right .After Becoming a citizen I seemed to shock certain folks when I told them to stick the job after yrs o "scottie this scottie that" and telling them that I can now put them on their a**** without worrying about being deported. This treating of people as 2nd class comes from every social class I have seen and heard little old ladies calling the philli timmies workers dogs abuse and people ,so called god fearing church goers muttering about bloody Sikhs when in a lineup to pay for gas! and don't even start on about natives when in rural coffee shops. .Don't think im some "snowflake" im 59 and worked in construction,muckaway camp work all my days and I can say hand on heart I never saw people treated as 2nd class citizens as much as I have in Canada,,,even the old signs in digs back in the late 70s No Blacks,, Irish or Dogs ,you knew what the score was but in Canada its whispered behind your back. sorry I know im going to get some flack over this post but its from the heart . james rural canada
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 3:35 am
  #54  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Raindropsandroses - thank you for your post. I have been following this thread with fascination and whilst I am reassured that many have not had the same experiences as myself in a way it saddens me to hear that I am not alone. Your story seems particularly galling. I must admit that whilst the workplace bullying and whispering campaigns I have endured have been bad enough at least no one has suggested that I'm not worth keeping alive. I've also been able to shield my family from much of it and am resigned to it sadly being part of the culture of my profession. For what little it is worth I am sorry that you had to experience that.
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 10:42 am
  #55  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by jamesmc View Post
ffffffff I thought long and hard about this thread and yes I WAS used as a second class citizen on my TWP ,things changed after PR but listening to people giving stick etc to fellow workers that were TWP s gets old quickly and the "send them all home" crew at camps and coffee shops would say ahhh but youre Scottish so that's all right .After Becoming a citizen I seemed to shock certain folks when I told them to stick the job after yrs o "scottie this scottie that" and telling them that I can now put them on their a**** without worrying about being deported. This treating of people as 2nd class comes from every social class I have seen and heard little old ladies calling the philli timmies workers dogs abuse and people ,so called god fearing church goers muttering about bloody Sikhs when in a lineup to pay for gas! and don't even start on about natives when in rural coffee shops. .Don't think im some "snowflake" im 59 and worked in construction,muckaway camp work all my days and I can say hand on heart I never saw people treated as 2nd class citizens as much as I have in Canada,,,even the old signs in digs back in the late 70s No Blacks,, Irish or Dogs ,you knew what the score was but in Canada its whispered behind your back. sorry I know im going to get some flack over this post but its from the heart . james rural canada
I couldn't agree more, this has been my husband's experience too. The "ahhh but you're..." is word for word what he's had at work.
The walls of the Gurdwara in Halifax was recently spray painted with slurs, and it is so, so sad. The times we've been there we've been there welcomed with open arms, and its one of the very few places I've felt genuinely welcome since moving to Canada.
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 10:55 am
  #56  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by alwaysbusy View Post
Raindropsandroses - thank you for your post. I have been following this thread with fascination and whilst I am reassured that many have not had the same experiences as myself in a way it saddens me to hear that I am not alone. Your story seems particularly galling. I must admit that whilst the workplace bullying and whispering campaigns I have endured have been bad enough at least no one has suggested that I'm not worth keeping alive. I've also been able to shield my family from much of it and am resigned to it sadly being part of the culture of my profession. For what little it is worth I am sorry that you had to experience that.
Thanks always busy. It does hurt, and having our child witness it is what makes it so bad.

We've lived in a lot of very racist and intolerant places before Canada, including Jo'burg. Canada is up there with the worst of them, it just talks a good game and alongside the blatant stuff you get the insidious stuff, which is worse in a way.

Yes there are great laws and policies to protect against this [email protected], but the issue is that when the citizens don't see anything wrong with what they're doing, those laws are close to worthless as its like King Canute trying to hold back the tide.

Never underestimate just how much of a pariah speaking out about this makes you, let alone taking action on it. The backlash is quite something to behold.

I should have also mentioned that our local First Nation Reserve have been extremely kind and welcoming too, we spent a lot of time with the band and have made some good, true friends there. And not "friends" who are eyeing up my cash value.
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 1:47 pm
  #57  
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Interesting story from our Hungarian teacher today.

Her husband, Doctor (paediatrician, oncologist) has just spent a year at a hospital in Vancouver. Apparently his Hungarian roots did not go down well with his colleagues & despite his extensive qualifications & experience he felt as though he was treated as a junior intern - & an alien. Needless to say he is glad to be home!
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 2:01 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by raindropsandroses View Post
Thanks always busy. It does hurt, and having our child witness it is what makes it so bad.

We've lived in a lot of very racist and intolerant places before Canada, including Jo'burg. Canada is up there with the worst of them, it just talks a good game and alongside the blatant stuff you get the insidious stuff, which is worse in a way.

Yes there are great laws and policies to protect against this [email protected], but the issue is that when the citizens don't see anything wrong with what they're doing, those laws are close to worthless as its like King Canute trying to hold back the tide.

Never underestimate just how much of a pariah speaking out about this makes you, let alone taking action on it. The backlash is quite something to behold.

I should have also mentioned that our local First Nation Reserve have been extremely kind and welcoming too, we spent a lot of time with the band and have made some good, true friends there. And not "friends" who are eyeing up my cash value.
In complete contrast to this I feel that the only consistent prejudice in Canada is against the First Nations people and I see why that is. The prejudices in this area are all ones people brought with them, many of them the consequence of the British (and others) dividing up the world and setting the people each side of the divisions against each other; the Balfour Declaration, the partition of India, the partition of Ireland, for example. They are prejudices of consequence in Canada but not Canadian prejudices.
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 2:10 pm
  #59  
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Hi Caretaker. Please don't get me wrong - I may well have expressed myself poorly - it's not that I don't like Canada (far from it) it's just that I have become increasingly aware at work that I am not treated equally with my peers and when I have discussed this with other immigrants in various different professions I have heard similar feelings expressed. I hesitantly started this post as I had wondered whether or not people were just saying to me what they thought I wanted to hear. As you say it could be me, it could be the work environment I am in, it could be the geographic location or any number of other factors but the bottom line is that I can't help but feel that no matter what I do I will never be viewed on quite the same level as someone born here. I'm not saying it would necessarily be better anywhere else or even that I am wanting to relocate but it was an unexpected disappointment when I realized that there was a glass ceiling above me that I had not anticipated.
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Old Jun 28th 2019, 2:44 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by alwaysbusy View Post
Hi Caretaker. Please don't get me wrong - I may well have expressed myself poorly - it's not that I don't like Canada (far from it) it's just that I have become increasingly aware at work that I am not treated equally with my peers and when I have discussed this with other immigrants in various different professions I have heard similar feelings expressed. I hesitantly started this post as I had wondered whether or not people were just saying to me what they thought I wanted to hear. As you say it could be me, it could be the work environment I am in, it could be the geographic location or any number of other factors but the bottom line is that I can't help but feel that no matter what I do I will never be viewed on quite the same level as someone born here. I'm not saying it would necessarily be better anywhere else or even that I am wanting to relocate but it was an unexpected disappointment when I realized that there was a glass ceiling above me that I had not anticipated.

The trouble is as well, is that as soon as you mention this stuff to anyone you get the shocked, horrified, aghast "What????!! But Canada is such a tolerant place" Not on this forum, but in real life.
People are very quick to tell you it must be you, you're bring your attitudes with you, you're not trying hard enough to fit in....etc etc. Actually the victim blaming culture in Canada is pretty shocking across the board, not just in this respect.

Just the same as my "friends" told me I was taking their comments too personally, and that if I was a Canadian I'd get it. Leaving aside that charming judgement, nope, I've lived in loads of countries and never had an issue, so I'm going to go with the its not me its you line of thought

In my experience, the more a country harps on about being tolerant the further from the truth that is.

We homeschool our child, and shielding Sprog from this stuff until old enough and equipped with the tools to deal with it is one of the reasons we do. Sprog has enough of it to deal with at hobbies and clubs.
I'd never actually say this in real life, I'd be crucified, so I give anyone who asks the other reasons for our decision instead.
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