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Second Class Citizen

Second Class Citizen

Old Aug 21st 2019, 3:03 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

<removed quote as original post removed by original poster prior to this post...>

I think you may have confused one James for another. JamesM who wrote the post you appear to object to lives and works in downtown Toronto, has done for a number of years. I also think you might want to read the site rules.

Last edited by Siouxie; Aug 21st 2019 at 5:22 pm.
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Old Aug 21st 2019, 3:12 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by blackriver View Post
....Liberal Party's CBC-Pravda cloud cuckoo land....


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Old Aug 21st 2019, 3:46 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by HGerchikov View Post
I think you may have confused one James for another. JamesM who wrote the post you appear to object to lives and works in downtown Toronto, has done for a number of years. I also think you might want to read the site rules.
I don't see the post you're quoting but I think Blackriver is a little muddled. Isn't he calling a <snipped>?

Last edited by Siouxie; Aug 21st 2019 at 5:18 pm. Reason: Can't allow those terms.. sorry
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Old Aug 21st 2019, 6:09 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I don't think I'm shifting blame. I'm not saying that the poisoned water is a consequence of racism, just that it's symptomatic of the racism endemic to Canadian society that the aboriginal people are left to suffer while the Canadians are oh so smug about the similar problems in Flint, MI. A population can be subject to systemic racism and it can still be the case that the members of that population that are not in jail or abducted do a poor job of maintaining their streetscapes.
I get what you're saying, I suppose I just perceive it as an issue with these kind of unique remote communities rather than racism per se, but if highlighting it as systematic racism gets the problems resolved sooner, I can't really oppose calling it that. I also did give this some more thought since my last comment and wanted to clarify that since they are under the jurisdiction of Indigenous Services then it is not the residents responsibility to pay to have things improved but rather them to receive the federal funding to resolve this. On the surface, it seems like they just don't want to pay for it but due to the treaties and agreements they actually shouldn't have to, so that is why they have that expectation. Problem is the system there really doesn't seem to be working in many cases, even though last year Indigenous Services got an $11 billion budget.

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
Yeah, it can, actually. The treaties entered into by the first nations are in effect for perpetuity.
This is true, there are obligations Canada has to meet due to the treaties that were agreed upon that they rightfully expect to receive indefinitely. However, there have been efforts to develop new modern treaties. For example, the BC treaty commission has drawn up some treaties that harmonize reserves with federal and provincial laws - Tsawwassen First Nation for example signed one in 2009 and are now doing quite well with a brand new outlet mall.

Last edited by CanadaJimmy; Aug 21st 2019 at 6:20 pm.
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Old Aug 22nd 2019, 5:27 pm
  #80  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

The only issue I’ve really had is a work colleague who is a born and raised local and doesn’t like me very much. We were out one night for drinks and out of the blue she starts asking about whether I would be receiving a pension and that she doesn’t think it’s fair that I should when Canadians have been paying into it. It’s not like I’ve moved here in my 60s I’ve still got another 30+ working years ahead of me to contribute to the system. It was a very bizarre rant and I just brushed her off saying I don’t know anything about the pension system (which is true). I’m sure her nose was probably out of joint when I had surgery last year too, oh well
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Old Aug 22nd 2019, 6:27 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by confused_uk View Post
The only issue I’ve really had is a work colleague who is a born and raised local and doesn’t like me very much. We were out one night for drinks and out of the blue she starts asking about whether I would be receiving a pension and that she doesn’t think it’s fair that I should when Canadians have been paying into it. It’s not like I’ve moved here in my 60s I’ve still got another 30+ working years ahead of me to contribute to the system. It was a very bizarre rant and I just brushed her off saying I don’t know anything about the pension system (which is true). I’m sure her nose was probably out of joint when I had surgery last year too, oh well
I think Raindrops experienced something similar for healthcare too.

Just in case the subject comes up again tell her that people can get a pension (OAS) from not paying in but based on residency in Canada. Canadians or immigrants.

I think it's an excellent system, after all one contributes to society in many ways - all the various taxes, bringing kids up, anything you do volunteer-wise, generally being a responsible citizen. After all, there are plenty of places paying 'universal' income to everyone so why not recognise what people have contributed in their lives.
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Old Aug 22nd 2019, 7:55 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

It's also a good example of people not seeing the big picture, due to the aging population immigration is propping up the entire pension system in Canada.
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Old Aug 22nd 2019, 8:26 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Being the immigrant is certainly an eye opener!

I really don't think I've been treated unfairly or poorly by Canadians on a personal level however I do feel that because i'm an immigrant my life is harder than it would be and requires more explanation than if I was a native Canadian. Being in the engineering field is tough as i'm sure it is in many "professionally designated" fields, this can give me a tough time mentally and it's hard not to feel disrespected or inferior, which would lead down the road of feeling like a second class citizen.
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Old Aug 26th 2019, 3:29 am
  #84  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

I think, as you suggested, it's more you.

My wife and I have lived in 4 countries and find that how positive you are in your outlook on life really makes a massive difference. And if you get off on the wrong foot, it can really put you in a bad place quickly. And that outlook can change throughout your life and the situations you are in or experiencing a the time. My wife never really like the west (wet) coast of British Columbia and really struggled in the UK. I loved with all my heart the UK, liked most of the US and found west coast BC tolerable, but detest with all my being Queensland Australia.

How you begin your journey can really set a tone that is very difficult to alter once it sets in in your mind. If you have determined to stay, then you really need to work hard on changing your thought patterns. Shut out the negative thoughts and focus on finding and seeing the positive in your situation and the people around you. It could take a few months of very hard work but it will actually start to alter your thinking if you do and you might find you actually like where you are - YMMV. If you're like me and let negative thoughts about Queenslanders fester for so long that there is no road back from perdition, then you need to start forming an exit strategy as soon as possible. Life is far too short to live where you hate and amongst those you despise, unless you have no other choice that is... Then you're [email protected]#ed

In our travels I've gotten to know a fair few immigrants from all over the world. We all seem to congregate like birds, don't we LOL. And the stories are almost always the same. More westerners go back to their homeland than stay where they immigrated to. It's a funny thing immigration, when I meet immigrants for the first while, they praise up and down how life couldn't be better - livin the dream baby!!!!. There seems to be a stigma that you can't be open about how things are going. Then after time to get to know them and a couple bottles of verbal lubricant they start to open up and talk about how things really are. Or there are those that always say life couldn't be better, then suddenly disappear, only to pop up back home. I don't meet many that are truly satisfied and happy with where they are in their move to some other place on the planet.

So take heart, you are more normal than those that embrace and fit in where ever they find themselves.

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Old Aug 26th 2019, 6:08 am
  #85  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by sun burnt in aus View Post
More westerners go back to their homeland than stay where they immigrated to.
Not sure that's unique to or any more common with westerners. Vancouver has a huge rolling Chinese student population, and I'd actually say most of those students usually go home once their studies are complete. I've heard stories about people who came here from parts of Asia and just couldn't make it work or didn't like their lives here.

Immigrating somewhere is incredibly tough, leaving family members and a familiar culture behind, even if Canada might technically be more "developed" than your home country. People from all backgrounds can struggle and decide to go home.

Last edited by CanadaJimmy; Aug 26th 2019 at 6:12 am.
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Old Aug 26th 2019, 6:52 am
  #86  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by CanadaJimmy View Post
Not sure that's unique to or any more common with westerners. Vancouver has a huge rolling Chinese student population, and I'd actually say most of those students usually go home once their studies are complete. I've heard stories about people who came here from parts of Asia and just couldn't make it work or didn't like their lives here.

Immigrating somewhere is incredibly tough, leaving family members and a familiar culture behind, even if Canada might technically be more "developed" than your home country. People from all backgrounds can struggle and decide to go home.
For student visas I'd say that will almost always be the case. I suspect student visas are issued in the hundreds of thousands a year for developed nations. I was talking about longterm visas. I haven't tried to look at the stats on longterm visa numbers for Canada, and it's been a few years since I looked, but for Australia about half of all longterm visa holders leave. When I drilled down through the numbers what I found was that those from developing and 3rd world countries almost always stayed. Where as, depending on country of origin, for developed nations it ranged from around 40% to almost all left.

Last edited by sun burnt in aus; Aug 26th 2019 at 7:00 am.
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Old Aug 26th 2019, 9:40 pm
  #87  
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Well, we came to BC in 1968, and are still here.

We found "our" place to live, and at no point have we ever had any desire to return to the UK.

We did discuss at one point what we would do if the economy tanked any more than it was doing in the mid-1980s, and OH lost his job.

Running a B&B in the Okanagan was top of the list, followed by certain parts of Australia and NZ ............. back to the UK didn't even make the top 100
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Old Aug 26th 2019, 10:13 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by sun burnt in aus View Post
For student visas I'd say that will almost always be the case. I suspect student visas are issued in the hundreds of thousands a year for developed nations. I was talking about longterm visas. I haven't tried to look at the stats on longterm visa numbers for Canada, and it's been a few years since I looked, but for Australia about half of all longterm visa holders leave. When I drilled down through the numbers what I found was that those from developing and 3rd world countries almost always stayed. Where as, depending on country of origin, for developed nations it ranged from around 40% to almost all left.
As at the end of 2018 there were approx 570,000 people on study permits in Canada. Would it surprise you that 310,000 came from only 2 countries India and China.
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 2:07 am
  #89  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
As at the end of 2018 there were approx 570,000 people on study permits in Canada. Would it surprise you that 310,000 came from only 2 countries India and China.
Oh no! Unless those are the most heavily populated countries on earth, I'm shocked!
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 10:57 am
  #90  
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Default Re: Second Class Citizen

Originally Posted by sun burnt in aus View Post
I think, as you suggested, it's more you.

My wife and I have lived in 4 countries and find that how positive you are in your outlook on life really makes a massive difference. you get off on the wrong foot, it can really put you in a bad place quickly.
Well I’ve lived in 6 countries, am jokingly referred to as Mary Poppins as I am a ‘very’ positive and generally outgoing individual...and I’ve really found Canada to be a bit of a bear to settle into. Seven years later, little shocks me with regard to the random rude comments that I have encountered on a regular basis. There are lots of nice pleasant people, but a small number of truly ignorant gits who do not like anyone that doesn’t sound Canadian. It’s probably far different in more cosmopolitan cities but in this neck of the woods NB born is best.

Last edited by MillieF; Aug 27th 2019 at 10:58 am. Reason: typo
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