The Plumbers crack
May 5th 2010, 5:44 pm
#226
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: The Plumbers crack
Ah, so you're a classicist, then? You'll no doubt be familiar with the inscription over the entrance to Plato's Academy, whence derives much of Western philosophy and thus the intellectual capacity to appreciate the high arts.
Ἀγεωμέτρητος μηδεὶς εἰσίτω
Roughly: Let nobody who doesn't understand geometry enter this place.
See - they understood even in ancient Greece that a rounded education includes both the liberal arts and the natural sciences - so much so that it wasn't until after the Enlightenment that a distinction between the two branches of knowledge was made.
Ἀγεωμέτρητος μηδεὶς εἰσίτω
Roughly: Let nobody who doesn't understand geometry enter this place.
See - they understood even in ancient Greece that a rounded education includes both the liberal arts and the natural sciences - so much so that it wasn't until after the Enlightenment that a distinction between the two branches of knowledge was made.
Ultimately I think Kate is just a manipulated product of our times and she can't really be blamed for her prejudices. The problem with pigeon holing people (like she does) is that some people believe it (like she does) and then live up to it (like she does). So an artist will dismiss something requiring engineering and an engineer will dismiss the arts; both will say it's because they don't understand it even though they probably haven't even tried. But then I would say that because I'm a Taurus.
May 5th 2010, 5:46 pm
#227
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,892
Re: The Plumbers crack
The separation of the arts and sciences as different mutually exclusive skills requiring different personality traits to understand them is a recent western cultural thing. It wasn't the case even in the 1800's where people like Humphrey Davie were compatriots of the Shelly's and their ilk. It's still not the case in Asia.
Ultimately I think Kate is just a manipulated product of our times and she can't really be blamed for her prejudices. The problem with pigeon holing people (like she does) is that some people believe it (like she does) and then live up to it (like she does). So an artist will dismiss something requiring engineering and an engineer will dismiss the arts; both will say it's because they don't understand it even though they probably haven't even tried. But then I would say that because I'm a Taurus.
Ultimately I think Kate is just a manipulated product of our times and she can't really be blamed for her prejudices. The problem with pigeon holing people (like she does) is that some people believe it (like she does) and then live up to it (like she does). So an artist will dismiss something requiring engineering and an engineer will dismiss the arts; both will say it's because they don't understand it even though they probably haven't even tried. But then I would say that because I'm a Taurus.
May 5th 2010, 5:47 pm
#228
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,374
Re: The Plumbers crack
In Kate's defense, I don't think anyone is suggesting you can't be a good person without formal education, it just means you're a bit thick. My Nan was a wonderful lady, never stole anything, never swore, made a wonderful roast dinner, but her understanding of Wittgenstein's private language argument was rudimentary at best.
May 5th 2010, 5:48 pm
#229
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,892
May 5th 2010, 5:58 pm
#232
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Posts: 10,222
Re: The Plumbers crack
Hello little miss ding dong,
Some posts I ignore if I think they are not worth bothering with....sometimes I do miss them, but I will answer you.
Friends was it....err I said that I do neglect my friends this is because I spend lots of time arguing with the cerebrally challenged on the internet,working, running a home, dealing with family.
Seriously can you keep up with all the people that want to be your friend...I wish I could.
I don't understand the exchange with the Oakville at all should I have done?
Some posts I ignore if I think they are not worth bothering with....sometimes I do miss them, but I will answer you.
Friends was it....err I said that I do neglect my friends this is because I spend lots of time arguing with the cerebrally challenged on the internet,working, running a home, dealing with family.
Seriously can you keep up with all the people that want to be your friend...I wish I could.
I don't understand the exchange with the Oakville at all should I have done?
Any way, I am off to Whistler for the night with MY FRIENDS from the Uk, who I do not neglect and hence have come to visit me
May 5th 2010, 5:59 pm
#233
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: The Plumbers crack
ahh - I thought I was Speshul
Um, yes I can keep up with my friends because I don't neglect them! That's why they are friends - innit - or am losing the will to live?
Any way, I am off to Whistler for the night with MY FRIENDS from the Uk, who I do not neglect and hence have come to visit me
Um, yes I can keep up with my friends because I don't neglect them! That's why they are friends - innit - or am losing the will to live?
Any way, I am off to Whistler for the night with MY FRIENDS from the Uk, who I do not neglect and hence have come to visit me
May 5th 2010, 6:00 pm
#234
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Posts: 10,222
May 5th 2010, 6:06 pm
#235
Slightly Canadian
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 10,129
Re: The Plumbers crack
May 5th 2010, 6:13 pm
#236
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,374
Re: The Plumbers crack
Ah, I just Googled and discovered "Godwin's Law"... for those unfamiliar, it basically says that you can tell when an internet discussion is becoming tired and tedious whenever someone refers to Hitler or Nazism.
Well, this thread certainly falls into the tired and tedious category, so perhaps Mr. Godwin is a clever old chap.
Oh - it also says that whomever makes the Hitler/Nazi reference "loses" the argument, but seeing as I wasn't actually participating in the argument, contenting myself with facetiousness about broken sanitaryware, perhaps I don't have much to lose.
But thanks for making me learn something new today!
Well, this thread certainly falls into the tired and tedious category, so perhaps Mr. Godwin is a clever old chap.
Oh - it also says that whomever makes the Hitler/Nazi reference "loses" the argument, but seeing as I wasn't actually participating in the argument, contenting myself with facetiousness about broken sanitaryware, perhaps I don't have much to lose.
But thanks for making me learn something new today!
May 5th 2010, 6:40 pm
#239
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 51,190
May 5th 2010, 6:50 pm
#240
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 215
Re: The Plumbers crack
One last try,but only because that Greenhill made me laugh my head off. Perhaps I need to talk to you slooooooooowly and simply so that it doesn't upset your fragile minds.
Here's me Kate, a working class girl dragged up through the council estates and military bases of a breaking Britain. I didn't have the privileges of nanny making tea for me, and picnics at Ascot. I haven't drank Pimms on the lawn of Buckingham palace as a lot of you have. it was grim, coal fires and beans on toast when we were lucky. A bath once a week, and avoiding the drug pushers and thugs in school halls. The highlight of the week was Coronation street and the daily paper was the Mirror. sometimes we had the Titbits and If I was a really good girl I got to read the Beano.
Now what chance as a child, did I have of understanding the finer points of life? We didn't discuss the odyessy around the dinner table It was, "did you fill the pools in and what won at Aintree", "have you paid the milkman."
How can you jump from that to the collective unconcious without some education???? A university is a center of learning nice professors are there who point out the nuances of literature, history and philosophy. that would otherwise be missed by someone used to reading the bloody BEANO.
I personally, have had my learning advanced by going to Uni. I have nothing against people who didn't go. For me personally it was beneficial. It has enhanced my understanding of life
I have nothing against engineers, carpenters, plumbers, Scorpios Taureans
thick bar stewards on forums, Whatever.
What is so bad in saying a university enhances knowledge.
Now the snooty will look down their noses at poor little under privileged Kate.
"The working classes should stay in the gutter where their mediocre intellect belongs."
Too bad I crawled out hahahahahhaaa
Here's me Kate, a working class girl dragged up through the council estates and military bases of a breaking Britain. I didn't have the privileges of nanny making tea for me, and picnics at Ascot. I haven't drank Pimms on the lawn of Buckingham palace as a lot of you have. it was grim, coal fires and beans on toast when we were lucky. A bath once a week, and avoiding the drug pushers and thugs in school halls. The highlight of the week was Coronation street and the daily paper was the Mirror. sometimes we had the Titbits and If I was a really good girl I got to read the Beano.
Now what chance as a child, did I have of understanding the finer points of life? We didn't discuss the odyessy around the dinner table It was, "did you fill the pools in and what won at Aintree", "have you paid the milkman."
How can you jump from that to the collective unconcious without some education???? A university is a center of learning nice professors are there who point out the nuances of literature, history and philosophy. that would otherwise be missed by someone used to reading the bloody BEANO.
I personally, have had my learning advanced by going to Uni. I have nothing against people who didn't go. For me personally it was beneficial. It has enhanced my understanding of life
I have nothing against engineers, carpenters, plumbers, Scorpios Taureans
thick bar stewards on forums, Whatever.
What is so bad in saying a university enhances knowledge.
Now the snooty will look down their noses at poor little under privileged Kate.
"The working classes should stay in the gutter where their mediocre intellect belongs."
Too bad I crawled out hahahahahhaaa
Last edited by kate 17; May 5th 2010 at 6:56 pm. Reason: the usual