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Motivations for emigration

Motivations for emigration

Old May 6th 2007, 8:22 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by startwin

I know there are a couple of other posters on this forum who have been here a long time and feel the pull to go back. There are others who have no desire to do so. And I had no regrets for almost 30 years, but my god when it hits, it hits big!! In my circle of ex-pat friends, there are a couple of us who feel like I do, and others who think we are nuts. Maybe. Anyway, those are just my thoughts to add to the mix.

I've been here for 44 years and I would be one who has no desire to go back but having said that I did have a major and I do mean major bout of depression about eight years ago.

Numerous things lead up to it and homesickness was part of it.

I wonder if I could ask either yourself or Lizwil98, if either of you have had any sort of major event in your lives within say two years of your change in feeling towards staying here?
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Old May 6th 2007, 8:25 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by lizwil98
I was really interested to read the reasons for moving to Canada. Of course, I moved here nearly 40 years ago. So did my sister, she moved to Vancouver about a year after we moved to Regina. I think houses were a reasonable price in Vancouver back then.

I just thought I would give you my perspective as someone who has been here for yonks.

The older I get the more I sort of wish I had never moved here. My sister feels the same. Maybe she feels it more than I do because she refuses to become a Canadian citizen! My husband and I have been citizens for about 30 years but we still retain our UK citizenship too, so that was not important to me. I might have felt differently if I had to give up my UK citizenship.

People talk about Canadians being friendly, but whenever I am back home I find strangers just as friendly. Maybe its me. I guess I don't aways feel comfortable chatting to strangers.

Of course, I can only go by how my sister lives. They have plenty of money, but they still have old stuff. I have friends who when they redecorate their bathroom they get rid of the old towels and buy new ones to coordinate with their new bathroom decor! I don't get that. Maybe that happens in England now too - probably!

Regina is bad for pulling down old buildings. Good lord, we don't have that many or that old! Just recently I wrote to my alderman about the plans to allow a developer to demolish an old downtown building that used to house a restaurant. It has lovely brick walls and wood plank floors and they are going to turn it into a parking lot - seriously! We used to have an old City Hall - I forget how old the building was. They pulled it down and built a highrise that used to have shops on the main floor. One by one the shops closed and now the feds have spent millions - maybe billions of our money turning it into government offices that nobody will want to visit because it's downtown and there is nowhere to park - except maybe the parking lot where they pulled the restaurant down.

I miss the old buildings. I miss the sea. I miss walking in the woods. I miss doing things with my relatives. My Mom is now 92 years old and rather frail and my sister is the only one left in England and she has the responsibility of looking after my Mom. Not that my sister and I came to Canada to avoid looking after my Mom when she got old!! It's just that helping out in this respect is impossible from this far away.

My sister and I both feel the same way. When our kids when younger and we were both busy with them and working full time and we didn't have much money, we didn't miss things. Neither of us went home for a visit for about 20 years. Since our kids are older and independent, I guess we have more time to reflect on things. I suppose we could always move back to England, but I doubt we would have enough money to buy a home there. My sister lives in a small village south of Maidstone and property is too expensive there for my budget. Also, we both have family here now.

If I won the lottery - BIG! Then I would talk my son and his wife and my other son and his daughter to live part time in Regina, where their friends are - and part time in England. However, that is not likely to happen - mostly because I don't buy lottery tickets!!!!
We could easily have moved to Canada 30 years ago but decided to stay in England and bring our family up. If we had to make the same decision now then it would be totally different. I would not wish to bring a family up in England these days. The country and its standards have changed so much - and not for the better. We are now planning to move to Canada as soon as possible and are encouraging the rest of our family to do the same. England of the 60's and 70's is just a distant dream!
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Old May 6th 2007, 9:16 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

The main reason why I want to emigrate, is because quite simply put = to run away from my mother. Other factors include:

1. UK is increasingly becoming a bad place to raise children. I am 25 years old and planning to marry soon. Over my dead body will my kids go to school here. Education system is down, "chavs" are on the rise and so is street violence. There is no teacher-pupil respect at schools and no one learns anything. I will not tolerate my future kids being forced behind the school shed to smoke cigerettes with other kids, just to "fit in". I am not saying this kind of thing doesnt exist in other countries, but at least in other places kids are more respectful of their elders and follow the rules somewhat

2. The laws of this country have become so overrated and ridiculous to the extent that British people find it difficult to utilize these laws to their advantage. Example: A friend of mine became homeless a few days ago, but the council wouldnt house her, even though she has been on the waiting list for ten years. Why? Because she doesnt have a mental illness and so not considered a "priorty" need. Apparently not having a roof over your head doesnt count as a "priority". The council showed her the door out of their housing office onto the streets. She is considering taking a few hard drugs to make it look like she is insane, just to get housed. Of course, the government doesnt care about the amount of money it would cost for drug rehab, once she gets into substance abuse.

3. Everything politics, social issues, environment etc etc is an organized mess!! After living many years in North America and travelling to other countries, I find that British organizations are very disorganized. Doing something simple here is impossible. My Natwest bank card doesnt have their telephone number on it. I spent an hour the other day searching for their number, just to check my bank balance. When I found it there were a few different numbers to choose from and of course I had to call all of them to see which was the one was the right one

4. Other nationalities seem to have an easier time emigrating to the UK then we get trying to get outta here!!!!!! Even when we visit the USA under the VWP, we only get 90 days and Americans get six months!!?? It seems so much easier for Americans and others to live and work here, but then again thats mostly because of the EU, which is another thing I dont agree with. France, Germany and the UK are the largest economies in the EU. A Polish slash Polish EU citizen has to decide between Germany, France and the UK for their education/career/life.... which do they choose? Of course, the UK. I personally dont think there is any direct benefit to being part of the EU for British citizens, apart from being able to travel there Visa free. Remember the time when Spain was a "third world" world country? This EU thing is more economically beneficial for other EU countries, but not for the UK....We were always a strong economy to begin with...Hell, we ruled the world!!! What happened to us? We have an open door/easy policy on immigration, thats what!!

phew!!

Had my rant....anyone up for coffee??
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Old May 7th 2007, 2:09 am
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by Neelam
3. Everything politics, social issues, environment etc etc is an organized mess!! After living many years in North America and travelling to other countries, I find that British organizations are very disorganized. Doing something simple here is impossible. My Natwest bank card doesnt have their telephone number on it. I spent an hour the other day searching for their number, just to check my bank balance. When I found it there were a few different numbers to choose from and of course I had to call all of them to see which was the one was the right one
Wait until you encounter the dazzling bureaucratic incompetence of Canadian banks, utility companies, anyone you have to deal with over the phone...

Originally Posted by Neelam
4. We have an open door/easy policy on immigration, thats what!!
Oh the irony!
I was talking to someone newly landed the other day who listed one of their reasons for emigrating to Canada from the UK as "They're letting too many people into the country."

I wonder how many Canadians feel the same way?
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Old May 7th 2007, 2:10 am
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Sorry to tell you Neelam, but I went to an all girls Grammar school in Whyteleafe -- 50 plus years ago. We used to go behind the shelters (grassed over air raid shelters) to smoke to fit in!!!

I don't think anything really made me feel like I wanted to move back home. Steve P asked if there was anything major. As far as I know, there was nothing major. Maybe my sons growing up and leaving home was part of it. I think that when they were teenagers we couldn't afford to pay the fares home and so we just stayed here and got on with our lives. My Dad died in 1979 and my Mom always used to come over here for long holidays. She would stay three months with me and three months with my sister in Vancouver. As far as I am concerned, I think my mind was here. I never thought about England.

Then, when my kids were older, I started going home for holidays. Then the Internet came along and it was much easier to keep in touch. You get photos from home and news from home. Also, long distance became cheaper. We never made long distance calls home. I don't think I even phoned my parents when I discovered I was pregnant. Oh no - that was much too expensive. You told people the news by snail mail and it all seemed so distant and far away and out of mind.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the news is current. I speak to my Mom on the phone all the time. I get emails and you can check the newspapers and the BBC on line - it's all "in your face" now and you can feel part of England when you are far away!

Mind you - that being said. I hate the M25. I hate barrelling along at 100 mph or whatever behind trucks from some foreign country with the steering wheel on the wrong side for England. And you wonder - can that guy see where he is going?? Last time I was home my son and his wife wanted to go to the Festival of Speed at Goodwood. So - it was the M25 again. I went along and visited a friend whose husband works on the Goodwood Estate. When we left there, we decided to go across country and miss the busy roads. Well, what a pleasure! We got lost a few times. We went through Haywards Heath. I lived in England for over 25 years and I never knew that Haywards Heath was a small town like that. To me it was a station on the way to Brighton!

However, I have to admit, a couple of dozen cars is a traffic jam in Regina!

Everything is so much trendier there than it was back then. When we left it took a year to get a telephone in your house. Back then "foreigners" were Jamaicans. They lived in Brixton or Hounslow. Not one child in my schools - from primary to grammar school was anything other than white Anglo Saxon. Mind you, I lived in Purley and back then, Purley was a pretty swanky place to live so I probably lived quite a sheltered life!

I am pretty sure that a lot of my view of England as it is now is coloured by the fact that my sister and her husband are obviously rather well off. So are their sons. They all live in huge houses, they have two cars, they obviously don't go without very much. My sister lives a much "classier" life than I do. I went to a garden party with them one time. All the women had long flowered dresses and straw hats and the food was like something off TV. When we have people over everyone wears jeans and we have burgers or hot dogs!!

I think if I went home and my sister lived in one of those flats that you pass on the way to London Bridge - I might not have that same romantic idea of England! However, I am on holidays - and everything looks better and more romantic on a holiday doesn't it?

I think with me its a case of the grass looking greener - but it is probably not a realistic view of life for the majority.
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Old May 7th 2007, 9:28 am
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

LOL... that's me - NOW!!!

Suze


Originally Posted by lizwil98
I lived in England for over 25 years and I never knew that Haywards Heath was a small town like that. To me it was a station on the way to Brighton!
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Old May 7th 2007, 11:01 am
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by lizwil98
Then the Internet came along and it was much easier to keep in touch. You get photos from home and news from home. Also, long distance became cheaper. We never made long distance calls home. I don't think I even phoned my parents when I discovered I was pregnant. Oh no - that was much too expensive. You told people the news by snail mail and it all seemed so distant and far away and out of mind.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the news is current. I speak to my Mom on the phone all the time. I get emails and you can check the newspapers and the BBC on line - it's all "in your face" now and you can feel part of England when you are far away!

.
Side tracking slightly - I have heard this said before, and find it an interesting phenomenon for our generation of immigrants.

When homesickness kicks in, and it would seem that it does for pretty much everyone, our technology is a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, we can get our 'fix' and chat to loved ones instantly; talk and soothe our fears away.

But on the other side, we can get our 'fix' almost instantly !! And that surely makes the homesickness worse, by consolidating our feelings of loneliness and 'seperateness' and compounding that distance between us and what we think we really, really need right at that moment. Generations before us had to grin and bear it - snail mail was the norm, long distance phone calls were too expensive - one cannot say whether things nowadays are 'better' or not.

Is it easier or harder now - who knows? We can only work with what we have - what our generation and our technology gives us - but the human heart will always have its own agenda - and I don't think you can ever foresee what that might throw at you
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Old May 7th 2007, 11:58 am
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by Neelam
2. The laws of this country have become so overrated and ridiculous to the extent that British people find it difficult to utilize these laws to their advantage. Example: A friend of mine became homeless a few days ago, but the council wouldnt house her, even though she has been on the waiting list for ten years. Why? Because she doesnt have a mental illness and so not considered a "priorty" need. Apparently not having a roof over your head doesnt count as a "priority". The council showed her the door out of their housing office onto the streets. She is considering taking a few hard drugs to make it look like she is insane, just to get housed. Of course, the government doesnt care about the amount of money it would cost for drug rehab, once she gets into substance abuse.
This is a peculiarly British complaint. The notion that "the council" should have an interest in providing people with housing just doesn't exist in most countries. There are dozens of homeless people on this block, some crazy, some with substance abuse issues, the Salvation Army takes an interest in them but "the council" does not. Moving from a country where you think the welfare state isn't generous enough to a country with less of a welfare system seems illogical.
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Old May 7th 2007, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33
This is a peculiarly British complaint. The notion that "the council" should have an interest in providing people with housing just doesn't exist in most countries. There are dozens of homeless people on this block, some crazy, some with substance abuse issues, the Salvation Army takes an interest in them but "the council" does not. Moving from a country where you think the welfare state isn't generous enough to a country with less of a welfare system seems illogical.
No I disagree wth you. If a country decides to have a particular kind of a welfare system, which includes access to council accomodation - then they should be accessible. Either have something and make it accessible to people OR simply take it away and not have it. Why do people who are not even British Citizens and come from places like Iran (i am not talking about refugeees or Asylum seekers - they have rights to protection) and East Europe and they somehow manage to swerve their way around the system and get council housing within months of being here! The Pakistani/Indian communities in the UK are proof of that!
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Old May 7th 2007, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by Mr Lee
Wait until you encounter the dazzling bureaucratic incompetence of Canadian banks, utility companies, anyone you have to deal with over the phone...

I have been living in North America for the last six years. I can say first hand that they are a LOT better then in the UK....

I think these things are just personal experiences occuring at a particular moment in time with particular people.



Oh the irony!
I was talking to someone newly landed the other day who listed one of their reasons for emigrating to Canada from the UK as "They're letting too many people into the country."

I think the problem here is not "letting too many people into the country" - its more about the relative EASE that people are let into the country, while WE have to go through more red tape.



I wonder how many Canadians feel the same way?
.
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Old May 7th 2007, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by Mr Lee

Oh the irony!
I was talking to someone newly landed the other day who listed one of their reasons for emigrating to Canada from the UK as "They're letting too many people into the country."

I wonder how many Canadians feel the same way?
BUT the major difference is we have paid and some waited a very long time to get into Canada LEGALLY. I think you will find the other poster is talking about the influx of ILLEGALS that come to England. They just come in and are given benefits/housing etc and they have not paid any money, filled in any forms or arrived legally.
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Old May 7th 2007, 1:38 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by jempee
BUT the major difference is we have paid and some waited a very long time to get into Canada LEGALLY. I think you will find the other poster is talking about the influx of ILLEGALS that come to England. They just come in and are given benefits/housing etc and they have not paid any money, filled in any forms or arrived legally.
Yes those who come through the back door and illegally!! Bugs me to bits!
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Old May 7th 2007, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by Neelam
No I disagree wth you. If a country decides to have a particular kind of a welfare system, which includes access to council accomodation - then they should be accessible. Either have something and make it accessible to people OR simply take it away and not have it. Why do people who are not even British Citizens and come from places like Iran (i am not talking about refugeees or Asylum seekers - they have rights to protection) and East Europe and they somehow manage to swerve their way around the system and get council housing within months of being here! The Pakistani/Indian communities in the UK are proof of that!
totally agree. Along with the food vouchers (i have never known any body else to get vouchers like they do!) oh and the money for the car that they get as well.
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Old May 7th 2007, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by jempee
totally agree. Along with the food vouchers (i have never known any body else to get vouchers like they do!) oh and the money for the car that they get as well.
They get money to buy a CAR!?!?!? Oh the shock of things

Last edited by Neelam; May 7th 2007 at 1:41 pm. Reason: spelling
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Old May 7th 2007, 1:43 pm
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Default Re: Motivations for emigration

Originally Posted by Neelam
No I disagree wth you. If a country decides to have a particular kind of a welfare system, which includes access to council accomodation - then they should be accessible. Either have something and make it accessible to people OR simply take it away and not have it. Why do people who are not even British Citizens and come from places like Iran (i am not talking about refugeees or Asylum seekers - they have rights to protection) and East Europe and they somehow manage to swerve their way around the system and get council housing within months of being here! The Pakistani/Indian communities in the UK are proof of that!
If you can show using some sort of reputable source that Indians and Pakistanis occupy a disproportionate number of council houses please do so. Otherwise I have to dismiss your post as racist tosh and warn you that Canada has brown people too.
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