sinope

My pushes and pulls are the same as everyone elses plus I worry about my daughter growing up in the UK which is a push and a pull because I think Canada would be more wholesome for her (and us).

dbd33

That's interesting. I feel that I've let my children down a bit by making them grow up here (even though they did go home for the summers and for their gap years). Money's important but, perhaps, it shouldn't be everything.

sinope

I would imagine that money is less important in Canada than in GB? The whole consumer thing is totally out of control over here - riots over clothes stores opening up, queuing 10 deep to get a celebrity endorsed shopping bag etc. Does this happen in Canada too?

dbd33

It's different in that Canada doesn't have fashion so there's no stampede to buy clothes or CDs. However, in the case of people moving from the UK, I think money is critical to the motivation. Canadian houses are cheap so people who move can buy more; not necessarily more of the same things but more land and lots of gas powered things; trucks, speed boats, skidoos, snowmobiles, ATVs and so on (what they unironically call an "outdoor lifestyle"). What's sacrificed for that is culture, history, family and appreciation of language so I think there's a case that emigration to Canada is the choice of the shallow and materialistic person.

<typed the owner of two SUVs and a recreational tractor>

edinburgh

really like the idea of a recreational tractor , do you hit the highway on it at weekends?

dbd33

Oh no, I just sit on it in the shed and stare down the bonnet imagining it to be a Lotus 7...

sinope

Well for me land and space and the ability to buy a house are big factors in moving to Canada. However, surely Canada has a very diverse culture (excepting the aboriginal peoples of course) so immigration from diverse cultures doesn't have an impact? Unless you mean people leaving their own countries are sacrificing their own culture and language which doesn't really apply to Brits anyway?

I am intrigued by the thought of a 'recreational tractor' too.

dbd33

I do mean that Brits give up their history and culture. That's not something people know they have until they come here and lose it, not that it's specifically a British problem. I know some Koreans, for example, feel the same way. In the context of children raised here I think it unfortunate, for example, that they have no appreciation of why old paintings and books have significance to people who haven't even seen the paintings or read the books. It's a subtle thing but raising children in the shallowness of Canadian society is, I think, an unfortunate trade for having more gadgets.

I don't think Canada has a diverse culture. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver include a diversity of cultures, the extent to which they could said to be Canadian is arguable, but most of the country is stunningly homogenous; it's easy to find people who have never seen anyone who is a different colour.

I realise, of course, that my points conflict to a degree, people in the cities likely haven't heard of, for example, Shakespeare, because he didn't write in their language and people in rural areas haven't heard of him because they don't get cable. A country with both immigrants and rednecks does have some diversity; however they're hundreds of miles apart and that's not diversity in the sense that India, for example, has diversity of languages and religions.

If you come for a bucket ride you'll understand how a tractor can be recreational. It's not a sexual position, honest!

Oakvillian

Interesting viewpoint - I find myself once again agreeing with you up to a point, dbd, and then again.... I wouldn't expect the Canadian education system to instil a great affinity for British (or Korean, for that matter) history or culture. My view is that it's up to parents to promote an understanding and appreciation of the "old country" culture and history in their children.

I agree that there's a shallowness of society that lives for today and measures success largely by material possessions. However, Canadians are widely acknowledged on the world stage to be generous of their time and resources, environmentally conscientious, ready to volunteer in a crisis, and so on (at least as individuals, if not the Government) so there's possibly some sort of seeking for "goodness" as a replacement for culture and history going on.

Having said that, my children are too young yet to have started full time schooling so perhaps I'll revise my views and become more cynical over the next few years. In the meantime, I'll hang on to my (forlorn?) hope that we as parents can pass on some of our own cultural values to our kids in spite of the apparent shallowness of society. Somewhere I have a copy of Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare that I read as a youngster - that should get them going.

dbd33

I trust you understand that I only agree with my posts "up to a point"; there's no advantage in understating one's argument.

I suppose the problem I have is that, as far as I can see, the understandable lack of promotion of British culture in Canadian schools isn't balanced by a promotion of a Canadian, or any other, culture. Canadian culture is defined in the negative, it's simply "not American", and so there's a void. I suggest that "Canadian Idol" stands as the exemplar of things Canadian. American Idol is a massively successful American show based on a British one and it's widely watched in Canada. Canadian Idol is a lame local variation produced to comply with local legislation. It's like the American show but not so slick, sort of the Edmonton Oilers of TV shows. Canadians don't know who's on Canadian Idol and who wins doesn't much matter.

A move from being British to being Canadian seems to me to be a move from being at the heart of English based culture to being on the far fringe. On the other hand, to promote appreciation for the "old country" in one's children risks alienating them from their environment. That leads to them wanting to take their masters in Europe and send you the bill.

fuschiagirl

Unfortunately British children are learning less and less history these days. They also have much less exposure to Shakespeare and the classics. I wonder how much the average British child knows of the country's cultural past?

Any views?

printer

And how many of them actually care!!

Will the youth of today mellow in their aged years and start to enjoy all that heritage on their doorstep or will these ornate buildings be transformed into discount shopping outlets and mega rave venues.

dbd33

That's not a choice anyone in Canada has to make.

Oakvillian

Of course - deliberate provocativeness is one reason I enjoy your contributions: if I thought you really believed some of the stuff you post I'd be worried for your grip on reality!

Granted, being "not American" is not enough to define a country - though it seems to serve well enough for the media. I agree, too, that CanCon rules do lead to ludicrous nonentities like Canadian Idol (the Edmonton Oilers of TV shows - like it!)

My kids will be quite at liberty to take their Masters in the UK so long as they are bright enough to win a Rhodes Scholarship...

MikeUK

I find it ironic that so much of Canada tries to define itself by “not American” when to all intent and purpose it is so much like America its hard to tell the two apart..

In my opinion there are just a few subtle visual clues, the flag, the sport on TV and the brand of Coffee drunk… other than that if a stranger was just dropped on a street they would be hard pushed to tell which side of the border they were on