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Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 5812713)
I'm resident in Canada, I pay taxes in Canada, the situation would only be comparable if I were to leave Canada. Lots of Canadians do that, Florida and Arizona are full of them, but if they want to maintain the benefits of being nominally resident in Canada, such as healthcare, they come back for half the year and deal with the tax liability. I don't think I draw any benefit in Canada and I certainly wouldn't think that if I were to move away from Canada I could still claim any such benefit.
How long have you been gone from the UK? You said: "Prodical pensioners, how can you sell your greed to the workers of today?" Having paid into a pension scheme for the whole of my working life, do you think that to ask that I get the full entitlement is greed ? You have a very odd sense of justice. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814453)
I have been in Canada for 10 years now. I have paid taxes for this whole period. You said that you don't think that you draw any benefit which to me suggests that you probably do or at least your family does , but you do not wish to go there.
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814453)
"Prodical pensioners, how can you sell your greed to the workers of today?"Having paid into a pension scheme for the whole of my working life, do you think that to ask that I get the full entitlement is greed ? You have a very odd sense of justice.
In any case, contributions you may have made in the past do not pay for any pension you might draw today and certainly not for increases in that pension related to inflation. Such a pension, and especially increases in the amount of that pension, are something paid by the taxpayers of today in appreciation of the work of people in the past, you can hardly expect them to be generous to people who ran off rather than contributing to the country. On edit: I see now that you say "I have been in Canada for 10 years now. I have paid taxes for this whole period." Unless you're paying taxes to both the Canadian and UK governments you plainly haven't contributed to the UK pension for all of your working life. I think you want it both ways love, Canadian for work, British for pension, that's just not cricket. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by exbrit
(Post 5813886)
I've read (most of) this thread with interest. Having lived in Canada for some years and sponsored my mom to come here too, she is one of the frozen pension recipients. I've been reading the rules for Canada's Old Age Security, the requirements of which are a minimum of ten year's residence. Are British pensioners entitled to receive this - I don't believe there is a requirement to have paid into it. I'm not saying I agree with this, although my mom has been paying tax here for almost 10 years here. I can't believe that the Canadian government could be happy to be supplementing British seniors, if indeed residency is the only requirement.
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDe...29&SESSION=875 and you will see the sort of thing that is happening. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 5814485)
I don't mind "going there". I don't think I draw any direct benefit from the government. I'm not on welfare, I haven't been sick. What do I draw from the government?
Did you emigrate as a pensioner? If not then you can hardly have paid in for all of your working life. In any case, contributions you may have made in the past do not pay for any pension you might draw today and certainly not for increases in that pension related to inflation. Such a pension, and especially increases in the amount of that pension, are something paid by the taxpayers of today in appreciation of the work of people in the past, you can hardly expect them to be generous to people who ran off rather than contributing to the country. I took early retirement before I emigrated to from the UK but had a full requirement of payments into the pension scheme to qualify for the full pension. Just a matter of a couple of years early. I do not now pay taxes to the UK government as you only pay taxes to one country. If you paid into an annuity would you be happy to accept less than you were entitled to when you started to collect ? I do not think so. On edit: I see now that you say "I have been in Canada for 10 years now. I have paid taxes for this whole period." Unless you're paying taxes to both the Canadian and UK governments you plainly haven't contributed to the UK pension for all of your working life. I think you want it both ways love, Canadian for work, British for pension, that's just not cricket. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814577)
Canadian for work, British for pension, clearly you do not understand what I have been saying. As I have tried unsuccessfully to change your one track mind about this issue before, I am wasting my time, as you are not willing to see any other point of view but your own.
The sensible compromise oft mentioned here is to stop the indexing of pensions for all emigrants. It's fair, it's cheap and it discriminates slightly in favour of people who do not run off. Does that work for you? |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814577)
Canadian for work, British for pension, clearly you do not understand what I have been saying. As I have tried unsuccessfully to change your one track mind about this issue before, I am wasting my time, as you are not willing to see any other point of view but your own.
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Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 5814595)
Neither are you, that's what makes an argument work.
The sensible compromise oft mentioned here is to stop the indexing of pensions for all emigrants. It's fair, it's cheap and it discriminates slightly in favour of people who do not run off. Does that work for you? You think that is fair. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by startwin
(Post 5814632)
Give it up, it's not worth the effort with him.
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Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814638)
No it does'nt. It does'nt work for the Canadian pensioners who emigrate or any European pensioner who emigrates, so why should a British pensioner be considered any less ?
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814638)
When you retire and your family has moved to Australia or Outer Mongolia or wherever and you follow them because you wish to be with them naturally, are you happy to get a pension frozen from the day of your departure ?
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814638)
Having paid in all of your working life , you are saying that you will be content with that situation. Eventually having to rely on your family to support you when the pension is insufficient through inflation etc.
Originally Posted by morge
(Post 5814638)
Your next door neighbour however, who has also emigrated, gets a full upgraded pension each year but only lives a mile away.
You think that is fair. If you want to live on the UK government, go and live in the UK. If they send you anything to your tax exile address just be grateful for it. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 5814647)
You are certainly not going to convince me that people who leave their country deserve continued rewards from that country, better to spend the money on the loyal and deserving.
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Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by startwin
(Post 5814705)
I think you've made it clear what your opinion is, many many times. However, just because it's your opinion doesn't necessarily make it the right one.. Once you've made your point why bother making it over and over again? It doesn't sway anyone else's beliefs.
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Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 5814682)
It works for Indian pensioners. American pensioners. Mexican pensioners. Why should a British pensioner be considered any more?
I don't expect to claim a pension from any state. I don't like to sponge but to support myself. You haven't paid in all your working life. See above. If I haven't made my own pension arrangements I don't think I should depend on any state to support me, certainly not a foreign one. I moved to Canada, neither the UK nor for that matter the Australian governments should have to support me. I think the neighbour is lucky, not that it makes anyone else entitled to the same thing. Pamela Anderson is lucky, it doesn't mean we're all entitled to have enormous breasts. If you want to live on the UK government, go and live in the UK. If they send you anything to your tax exile address just be grateful for it. Let me just enlighten you about the countries where the full pension is paid : Austria, Barbados, Belgium, Bermuda, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Guernsey, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jersy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Mauritius, Montenegro, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Philippines, Romania, Sark, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and the USA. Most of the other countries are the old Commonwealth countries - Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa being the main ones that are frozen. There is also a special agreement with Canada which allow periods of residence in Canada to count towards a pension in the UK, as long as you are actually living in the UK. So the Old Age Security that you would deny yourself in Canada because you do not SPONGE is available to Canadians who go to the UK. Any bets that you will claim your Canada pension and OAS when the time comes. YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT AND ENTITLED TO IT. To say that having paid for a pension and then not getting it in full but then asking for it is sponging shows that you have no understanding about what the word means. I have worked all of my working life in the UK - so where you said that I have not is a lie as I more than qualify for a full pension. You may be surprised to know that you do not have to work from 18 to 65 to get a full pension. I am only 2 years short of that 47 yr total The reference to Pamela Anderson just shows up your mentality, so I choose not to comment on that. The last comment about it being a tax exile address is also untrue as I pay Canadian taxes. I do not wish to make any more comments and will not be baited by your inaccurate assessment of this frozen pension policy. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Run off. Abandoned. Tax exile.
How many of us Brits in Canada consider that we are tax exiles or agree we abandoned the UK? This is the language dbd33 is using. He knows virtually zero about our circumstances and individual reasons for being here, yet assumes we have all run off to be tax exiles. And I haven't even mentioned his wind up attempts like calling people 'love'. It's sad, really, that he feels it's necessary. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 5816408)
Run off. Abandoned. Tax exile.
How many of us Brits in Canada consider that we are tax exiles or agree we abandoned the UK? This is the language dbd33 is using. He knows virtually zero about our circumstances and individual reasons for being here, yet assumes we have all run off to be tax exiles. And I haven't even mentioned his wind up attempts like calling people 'love'. It's sad, really, that he feels it's necessary. I am the N.B. representative. I have recently (September) been with my wife to the UK for a holiday and to see friends and relatives and made a claim for the increased pension which you are entitled to when in the UK. I have just received the payment which is quite significant and shows how much we are losing through this discriminatory policy. Even if you are not a pensioner, but would eventually qualify, then you could help us to get this changed for the time when you are. Thanks again. |
Re: FROZEN Pensions - Action Needed
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 5814682)
I think the neighbour is lucky, not that it makes anyone else entitled to the same thing. Pamela Anderson is lucky, it doesn't mean we're all entitled to have enormous breasts.
I don't recall hearing that Pam's breasts reduced according to which country she was in at the time though. :lol: |
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