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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by knockoff nige
(Post 11239941)
Maybe try and use your own words for a change. My point was that if someone can state that both sides are equally lying then state why you believe this. It seems that the notion of politicians lying is enough to believe that they have lied.
Anyway, I think you've confirmed on a later post that you believe that we don't have such a bad budget problem as you're being told. Why accept lies at all? If the previous government haven't actually put us in such a bad state as the coalition are telling you, why would they tell you such lies that do no-one any good other than creating fear among the people that things need to change. So all we're going to do is allow them to take money from you to give to the rich in the form of PPL and rebates for lowering pollution. Along with taking away a mining tax. I really can't understand how anyone can back this dinosaur of a prime minister and his dinosaur government. Zero debt is good debt. Some very revealing (non Wikipedia ;)) graphs here: http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...4p/AustGovDebt |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11239966)
So if you are at the big end end of town, looking at the go forward, why do you keep up with this leftist ideal. Recent political history in both the UK and Aus tells you that its a flawed system
And good question. |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by knockoff nige
(Post 11239964)
I think Gillard had said there wouldn't be a carbon tax but there would be a price on carbon. A contradiction in my opinion. But she didn't defend it like an idiot. She just didn't defend it. Abbot wants you to believe that a levy is not a tax as it's temporary. It's not inconsistent with his original policies, he said. He's either an idiot or believes Australians are idiots.
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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by knockoff nige
(Post 11239964)
I think Gillard had said there wouldn't be a carbon tax but there would be a price on carbon. A contradiction in my opinion. But she didn't defend it like an idiot. She just didn't defend it. Abbot wants you to believe that a levy is not a tax as it's temporary. It's not inconsistent with his original policies, he said. He's either an idiot or believes Australians are idiots.
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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11239972)
Nice way of presenting Julia's lies. Let be honest here. They all lie, or presenting it your way 'change their minds'. Sometimes its good to lie if you want to call it that. The flood levy for one. At the end of the financial year, we all got stung, had to dive in and find a few hundred extra bucks to sort out Brisvegas. That would have tasted a lot better if it had been 'buried' into our monthly out goings, rather than been hit with a very visible bill at tax time. Call it buried, call it a lie, but I'd rather have seen that tax hidden and spread. Again dumbass Labour shite.
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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11239966)
So if you are at the big end end of town, looking at the go forward, why do you keep up with this leftist ideal. Recent political history in both the UK and Aus tells you that its a flawed system
Recent political history in the UK & Aus has been one of far right - lite right - far right wanderings. Blair was famously not left wing, and Aus Labor is even less so. What's needed is a workable, long term, large scale, strategic, PLAN - a way forward that's not just rehashing the 20th century (which as that book points out, is over), but actually matches here and now. That's never going to come from the right (as I pointed out, they are destroyers, not creators) - but I can see a way that a more pragmatic, centralist, position could raise the level of thinking such that an escape route from the current downward spiral is possible. And as I say, that depends on your understanding of what a government is for, and who should be involved. If your vision is so limited that you think its as an enabler for a police state - well you've none of the tools you need to escape that downwards spiral. |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by paulry
(Post 11239967)
Some very revealing (non Wikipedia ;)) graphs here:
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...4p/AustGovDebt |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11239972)
Call it buried, call it a lie, but I'd rather have seen that tax hidden and spread. Again dumbass Labour shite.
Labor, and in particular Julia, were inept at the political game - unable to lie convincingly, actually being honest and open even when it disadvantaged them, and not laying the many punches on Abbott that his crass cr*p so deserved. Rudd was better than Julia, but one man doesn't make a political party. Mind if those were the faults of Labor relative to the coalition - what does that say about Tone? |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by knockoff nige
(Post 11239978)
I don't disagree with you on the way Labor did that. Gillard didn't defend what she said as she never answered the question. Tony Abbot did answer the question with either an idiotic answer or a lie to defend a lie. He also called the flood levy a tax. He might have forgot about that. But he was on autopilot on the Gillard bashing back then.
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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11240015)
Please. Give me a break. The exact reason why I hate working with Indians. If they don't have an answer they go hiding. Call it losing face or something.
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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by paulry
(Post 11239955)
The deficit tax is Tony's carbon tax moment. The only good thing about it is it's to clear down debt as apposed to Julia's main carbon tax objective which was to cling onto power. It makes sense practically to get rid of the debt but it'll also clear down his votes - at least until the debt is paid off. Far too risky in my opinion. It could be a way of making those who racked up the debt in the first place more accountable for it though. Each time the government is in deficit the tax kicks in and it has the name of the deficit creator plastered all over it. In fact we might as well just call it a Labor overspending tax now. ;)
Surely it's more a matter of timing? If it were demonstrable that there was an actual debt emergency, then it would be easier to swallow - but this is coming in short succession to the suggestion of tax cuts for big business, killing the CO2 tax, a very expensive maternity leave scheme, giving $8bn to the RBA, GP co-payments and announcing the purchase of $12bn worth of [currently] vapourware attack jets. In light of this, it strikes me as quite reasonable for Joe Public to be pissed at having Uncle Tone reach deeper into their wallets. I've maintained for a long time that there are some important structural changes that could be made to bolster government revenues, but I think this defecit levy is one step too far. We need longer term, structurally sustainable taxation initiatives, rather than continually fiddling around with the edges as we are seeing here. S |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 11240045)
...a very expensive maternity leave scheme,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-3...ayment/5419878 on the heals of the stories that the Tone Tax wouldn't get through the senate, maybe some of the loony extremes of coalition policy are getting chopped off?
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 11240045)
We need longer term, structurally sustainable taxation initiatives, rather than continually fiddling around with the edges as we are seeing here.
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Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 11240049)
Looks like Tone is winding that in somewhat:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-3...ayment/5419878 on the heals of the stories that the Tone Tax wouldn't get through the senate, maybe some of the loony extremes of coalition policy are getting chopped off? Too right. But to do that you have to have a big strategic plan - and neither side do, that's the problem. |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by paulry
(Post 11239971)
:ohmy: Yes she did! She wriggled and squirmed every step of the way!
It's tough being a leader whatever your convictions. Let's pay down debt and get on with it. I think in the west we over analyse politician's promises : it's just a tender to get a contract. If an executive can't be flexible how can the people they represent get set an example? I might come across a an Abbott fan. I am not. He is the leader of an elected party doing a tough job. |
Re: Share the pain
Originally Posted by knockoff nige
(Post 11240024)
What? I'm not defending Gillard. Just pointing out the difference of how she and Abbot handled their reversal in policy. Do you prefer Abbot redefining the word 'tax' as a good defence? It's proof enough that we have a monkey at the wheel.
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