Originally Posted by scottishcelts

Revenge of Empire - An empire built by the blood sweat and tears of all home nations upon the blood sweat and tears of countless innocents across the globe. An empire that brought slavery to the world. An empire that facilitated the creation of the states of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh and all of the problems associated with the ownership of Kashmir. An empire that spawned the strife in the Afghan nation, from which it has never recovered. An empire whose dying breath was used to create the State of Israel. An empire who abandoned Africa to the despots and dictators when it became too much hassle to manage, given that there were too few natural resources left to pillage. An empire that clings on to a piece of rock in the South Atlantic that cost the lives of many young men defending/upholding the remnants of an Empire long lamented in the streets of old blighty, yet forever reviled by most other nations on the planet.
The Celts do, for the most part, seek forgiveness from the world for the crimes we have perpetrated under the flag of the good old empire – I exclude the Irish from any blame in this. They had the good sense to reject the empire from the outset. We do not stand in ceremony, harking back to the days when Britishness was something to be feared. We seek reconciliation wherever possible. We do not sing Rule Brittannia as means of goading or neighbours, and other world citizens further afield. We mingle, we integrate, we learn and we inform. We have many friends throughout the world, and are numerous amongst them, partly because of the reasons you have given further in your 'rant'. It is not the Celts who refer to the English as 'Roast Beef', It is not the Celts who coined the phrase 'Perfidious Albion'. It is not the Celts who invented the term 'Little Englander', nor indeed, did we foster the Little Englander attitude which is perceived by the nations of Europe and further afield. We may seem to be Anti-English, but you forget that we Scots were not subjugated and broken. We joined in the UNION with the English in 1707, we voted unilaterally to preserve that UNION in 1978. The Welsh were subjugated. The Irish refused to buckle and were oppressed for the greater part of 800 years for their defiance. Revenge of empire? No, merely a drawing of the lines of distinction that not all of the home nations are the same. We do not cling to the idea of marauding down hillsides, swinging claymores at English invaders. But neither do we cling on to the memories of an Empire that raped the world and still espouse it as a great achievement. I would respond to some of the other misguided points you have raised, but, I am sure, in retrospect, you already know that you are right. You wonder why the English are perceived the way they are? Then take the time to read, dissect and comprehend your own post.

Originally Posted by fific

We left for the same reason as many others on here - better life, safer for kids, more egalitarian approach, adventure etc... Reality - as everyone has said same s**t different place - except - unless you are lucky enough to have close family and friends here - you have to handle day to day life on your own. Where we live is stunningly beautiful - but that doesnt help when your career has taken a landslide, you're up to your eyes in housework/domestic dramas ( just as you would have been in UK) and you're lonely for your "home". To top it off if you come with older kids - who love it here - then you feel trapped we cant disrupt thier education and it was our choice to come not theirs. Educationally we are also disappointed with the standards - although school life itself is better overall. So would we do it again - I dont think so - or if we did - we would come for an agreed two years with view to going back ( at least that way we wouldnt be stung with overseas uni fees).

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

Christ Almighty that's a bit heavy. Irish father, Scotish mother and I am very definitely English. Perhaps as a Scot who's eyes seem to very definitely looking backwards you would have preferred a French Empire to the British... remember Culloden?

Originally Posted by Hutch

Wow - what a crock...... for ****'s sake!.....who the hell gave you the right...... 800 ****ing years in Scotland....I realise you were probably foaming at the mouth...

Originally Posted by scottishcelts

Foaming at the mouth? I'll let you re-read your post, son and see who is foaming at the mouth, spitting feathers, launching in to a tirade. Whats up Hutch? Did i touch a little raw nerve?

Originally Posted by ezzie

'Suppose it wouldn't be wise at this point to mention that most historians have now largely discounted the past existance of any 'Celtic' nations - generally the Celts are seen as a rather romantic notion, whereas the real people who inhabited Britain at that time were disparate groups of Iron Age settlers. The 'Celts' (as such) basically came from India and the Middle East, created a strong settlement in Turkey, spread across Europe to Spain and then scattered and blended with local communities. That's why the English language is an Anglo-Indian derivative.

Originally Posted by ezzie

'Suppose it wouldn't be wise at this point to mention that most historians have now largely discounted the past existance of any 'Celtic' nations - generally the Celts are seen as a rather romantic notion, whereas the real people who inhabited Britain at that time were disparate groups of Iron Age settlers. The 'Celts' (as such) basically came from India and the Middle East, created a strong settlement in Turkey, spread across Europe to Spain and then scattered and blended with local communities. That's why the English language is an Anglo-Indian derivative.

Originally Posted by Hutch

Now you've done it.

Originally Posted by Officer Dibble

Just dont mention the war................

Originally Posted by Wol

All I can say to Scottishcelts is that, during my travels, I have lost count of the number of ordinary (I emphasise "ordinary") folk in many old empire countries who say, unprompted, that their countries would be better off had the British continued to run them.

We live in different times to those of the empire, and in those days attitudes, cultures, classes were different. However, for all the faults and inequities the empire did on the whole leave solid infrastructures, administrative and governmental models and the beginnings of local middle classes. (Hence the couple of hours and dozens of bits of paper that it can take to enter any Indian airport <g>.)

Compare this legacy with those of some European ex-colonies and I don't think we have a great deal to be ashamed of, even if you think we are responsible for things that happened a century ago. In relatively modern times some colonial powers left their newly independent countries with wrecked infrastructures.

Originally Posted by scottishcelts

Afghanistan and Pakistan are prime examples. Uganda, Burma and Zimbabwe can hardly be held up as models of democracy with a middle class that administers and organises.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

Christ Almighty that's a bit heavy. Irish father, Scotish mother and I am very definitely English. Perhaps as a Scot who's eyes seem to very definitely looking backwards you would have preferred a French Empire to the British... remember Culloden?

Originally Posted by scottishcelts

What we cannot be proud of is the cost in human suffering, still being perpetrated today as a result of Empire, most notably in the aforementioned countries.

Originally Posted by scottishcelts

Why bring the French into the argument?

I would have preferred no empire