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Margaret Thatcher is dead

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Old Apr 14th 2013 | 8:47 am
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by paulry
I challenge you to watch this and then tell me you still hate her...
I saw that on TV last night. It's one of the finest pieces of historical revisionism I've seen for quite some time. In fact it was pathetic.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 8:55 am
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by isgraham
I saw that on TV last night. It's one of the finest pieces of historical revisionism I've seen for quite some time. In fact it was pathetic.
Examples...?
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 9:24 am
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by rajj
I bet they dont vote Labour....BNP, UKIP, Tories & then Labour in that order (It used to be Labour before thatcher came on the scene granted!).
Maybe they would vote BNP because that party has socialist "something for nothing" leanings, otherwise Labour. UKIP and the Tories would require them to actually go to work - something which for them would be like holy water to a vampire.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 1:57 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by Wol
They forget, or didn't experience, just how low the UK had gone. The Scanlons, Jones, Hattons and the like, the 3 day week, the prolonged electricity cuts, the £50 foreign travel allowance (not a lot even then!) and so on. The Chancellor having to cancel a flight at Heathrow to plead with the IMF. Another ten years of Wilson, Callaghan, Heath, and the UK would have been a complete basket case.
I actually wonder how bad it was in the 70s - and this is a genuine question to those who were working in the 70s. Sure we had days without electricity and strikes, and I've just read entire television channels were off-air.
Are we able to seperate extreme industrial action which caused disruption measured in days (or months) from an entire country that was broken? People say now despite the GFC that their families are prosperous. Surely millions lived comfortably despite the decade? The political scenes might even be reminiscent of PM Brown's muddling. Could the actions have been fixed in the 80s and all swept under the carpet -after all the UK still experiences industrial action!

But still! Won't you people shagging each others wifes and eating Instant mash and melting cheese in little pots?
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 2:02 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack

But still! Won't you people shagging each others wifes and eating Instant mash and melting cheese in little pots?
Karma for that.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 2:43 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
I actually wonder how bad it was in the 70s - and this is a genuine question to those who were working in the 70s. Sure we had days without electricity and strikes, and I've just read entire television channels were off-air.
Are we able to seperate extreme industrial action which caused disruption measured in days (or months) from an entire country that was broken? People say now despite the GFC that their families are prosperous. Surely millions lived comfortably despite the decade? The political scenes might even be reminiscent of PM Brown's muddling. Could the actions have been fixed in the 80s and all swept under the carpet -after all the UK still experiences industrial action!

But still! Won't you people shagging each others wifes and eating Instant mash and melting cheese in little pots?
Firstly before I give my view of working in 70's UK I've got one piece of quite incredulous information. You know that fighting at the FA Cup Semi Final between Millwall fans.... turns out it was Pro Thatcher people V Anti Thatcher people... the ones that were going on to have a go at the protest in Trafalgar square v the ones having a go at them for going. Thats what my Sarf London board is saying. So it was a political altercation.

The only time I worked in the UK was throughout the 70's. I had great jobs in the square mile, was able to just about walk into any job in my field that I wanted. Went to end of year do's at places like the Hilton hotel, plus had substantial, second hand car amount bonuses... The 3 main jobs I had were at Morgan Guaranty, Wells Fargo, and Galbraiths Shipbroking... I also did extra work as a part time Telex op in various places when my shifts allowed at places like FNCB, Chase Manhattan, Mitsubishi Bank... All in all I had some much dosh for my age it was like rolling in it. (I was earning more than my Council driver gardner father at age 18 and by 20 a hell of a lot more) I had private health insurance with BUPA, A private Pension Scheme, All I knew was affluence and wealth... thing is most people I knew were well off as well... with my main soccer mates being Trainee Draughtsmen, Trainee Quantity surveyor, , Apprentice Electrician and a Cadet Police officer . As far as I'm concerned all youth could easily get a job in the early part of the 70's at least.. My peers were going to places like Sweden for weekends. I didn't know anyone that was unemployed. Young people were travelling around the country in their 1,000's every weekend following football trains on affordable British Rail. Got to admit plenty of the trains didn't get there intact but most people who wanted to travel could afford to go and actually get into first division games buying tickets on the day of the game.

The unions had very little affect on us, save for the 3 day week, which most people I knew and worked with blamed on the government at the time, as people realised that miners had a hellish job and why should they get paid less than the average city office worker.... plus it was very bad for City business... So honestly the consensus was "pay them what they want, I wouldnt want to do it" British Leyland was slightly different and people realised they were being greedy, but there you go, they just wanted to maintain their position in society as wages were racing at breakneck speed at that time.

So for me personally it was the best part of my working life.... I really did never have it so good. Got to admit work and life usually always seems good to youngsters starting out so my view could be tempered by my age at the time.

Just my own view of working in the 70's.

Last edited by ozzieeagle; Apr 14th 2013 at 2:49 pm.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 2:57 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Firstly before I give my view of working in 70's UK I've got one piece of quite incredulous information. You know that fighting at the FA Cup Semi Final between Millwall fans.... turns out it was Pro Thatcher people V Anti Thatcher people... the ones that were going on to have a go at the protest in Trafalgar square v the ones having a go at them for going. Thats what my Sarf London board is saying. So it was a political altercation.

The only time I worked in the UK was throughout the 70's. I had great jobs in the square mile, was able to just about walk into any job in my field that I wanted. Went to end of year do's at places like the Hilton hotel, plus had substantial, second hand car amount bonuses... The 3 main jobs I had were at Morgan Guaranty, Wells Fargo, and Galbraiths Shipbroking... I also did extra work as a part time Telex op in various places when my shifts allowed at places like FNCB, Chase Manhattan, Mitsubishi Bank... All in all I had some much dosh for my age it was like rolling in it. (I was earning more than my Council driver gardner father at age 18 and by 20 a hell of a lot more) I had private health insurance with BUPA, A private Pension Scheme, All I knew was affluence and wealth... thing is most people I knew were well off as well... with my main soccer mates being Trainee Draughtsmen, Trainee Quantity surveyor, , Apprentice Electrician and a Cadet Police officer . As far as I'm concerned all youth could easily get a job in the early part of the 70's at least.. My peers were going to places like Sweden for weekends. I didn't know anyone that was unemployed. Young people were travelling around the country in their 1,000's every weekend following football trains on affordable British Rail. Got to admit plenty of the trains didn't get there intact but most people who wanted to travel could afford to go and actually get into first division games buying tickets on the day of the game.

The unions had very little affect on us, save for the 3 day week, which most people I knew and worked with blamed on the government at the time, as people realised that miners had a hellish job and why should they get paid less than the average city office worker.... plus it was very bad for City business... So honestly the consensus was "pay them what they want, I wouldnt want to do it" British Leyland was slightly different and people realised they were being greedy, but there you go, they just wanted to maintain their position in society as wages were racing at breakneck speed at that time.

So for me personally it was the best part of my working life.... I really did never have it so good. Got to admit work and life usually always seems good to youngsters starting out so my view could be tempered by my age at the time.

Just my own view of working in the 70's.

So for you, 'living in the 70s' , get it? not so bad.....

I wonder if predictably, this is all really about class warfare. And surely there were affluent people in the regions.....

Of course, the miners went on to demand more.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:01 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

So many of the UK's key industries were finished well before 1979 and MT:
Aviation - in 1945 the UK really was the top of the pile in this. 10 years later it was effectively over bar the shouting. France and the US did so much better
Shipbuilding - In decline by the '60s. Unions, government and Asia to blame
Cars - We all know the story
Heavy engineering, steel, electronics, textiles all followed the same pattern

All this stemmed from the fallout of WW2 - the rise of socialism and the welfare state, the UK being broke meant too little investment, the loss of empire and its captive markets, the rise of competing nations, laziness, complacency and apathy, lack of innovation and crap products (not always though), poor management and government policy and just plain bad luck
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:05 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
So for you, 'living in the 70s' , get it? not so bad.....

I wonder if predictably, this is all really about class warfare. And surely there were affluent people in the regions.....

Of course, the miners went on to demand more.
How much money would you have wanted to be paid as a miner.... ? Everyone asked themselves that question during that first dispute. I think the newspapers at the time posed that question on more than one occasion. So no one I knew of anywhere objected to them getting whatever they wanted.

Whilst working at Morgans, I can clearly remember the North Sea being divided onto grids on the wall in one of the offices there.... probably something to do with international loans. I wonder how much dosh the Americans made out of funding the equipment and exploration whilst they and the other banks took control of the money and how it was divided up between the others in international banking community. North Sea oil was a bonanza for the non UK international banking community.

Last edited by ozzieeagle; Apr 14th 2013 at 3:09 pm.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:06 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by rajj
The irony of it, BLAMING (in your words) the parents!!!

Blaming just one person is perhaps simplistic....a bit like Adolf was not responsible ALONE and should not take responsibility for the extremists in Rostock as it was 60years ago (FFS you cannot be serious!!). In the context of the article its not stupid at all - you reject it fine, but its not stupid.
I bet their parents didn't do these things
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:09 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
How much money would you have wanted to be paid as a miner.... ? Everyone asked themselves that question during that first dispute. I think the newspapers at the time posed that question on more than one occassion. So no one I knew of anywhere objected to them getting whatever they wanted.
One thing I have never understood is why did more of these mines not reopen after the unions were broken? UK still has a few mines operating, but only some of them are truly profitable, the rest are marginal and probably going to close. If more mines were cost effective they would be working today.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:14 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by Amazulu
One thing I have never understood is why did more of these mines not reopen after the unions were broken? UK still has a few mines operating, but only some of them are truly profitable, the rest are marginal and probably going to close. If more mines were cost effective they would be working today.
On the face of it, a good question.
If the unions were shielding...

Even banks are allowed to fail.....
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:17 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
On the face of it, a good question.
If the unions were shielding...

Even banks are allowed to fail.....
Although capital intensive, mining tends to be very lucrative - hence the number of very successful companies doing it. If there was a way to make money from UK mining, someone would be doing it.
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 3:36 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Socialism was truly an influence then and partly in place.
Originally Posted by Amazulu
So many of the UK's key industries were finished well before 1979 and MT:
Aviation - in 1945 the UK really was the top of the pile in this. 10 years later it was effectively over bar the shouting. France and the US did so much better
Shipbuilding - In decline by the '60s. Unions, government and Asia to blame
Cars - We all know the story
Heavy engineering, steel, electronics, textiles all followed the same pattern

All this stemmed from the fallout of WW2 - the rise of socialism and the welfare state, the UK being broke meant too little investment, the loss of empire and its captive markets, the rise of competing nations, laziness, complacency and apathy, lack of innovation and crap products (not always though), poor management and government policy and just plain bad luck
 
Old Apr 14th 2013 | 4:13 pm
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Default Re: Margaret Thatcher is dead

Originally Posted by Amazulu
One thing I have never understood is why did more of these mines not reopen after the unions were broken? UK still has a few mines operating, but only some of them are truly profitable, the rest are marginal and probably going to close. If more mines were cost effective they would be working today.
Like manufacturing, the main issue is cost of wages, and also health and safety costs. Thatcher knew Britain could never compete with companies using Chinese slaves, and with zero H&S costs as well (hence all the weekly Chinese mine collapse stories in the newspapers).

She knew that, and she acted on it. This part of her policy I have never had a major problem with, but she could have handled it better, and put more in place to help with the transition of the economy. The problem was her faith in the "free market" to sort everything out.
 


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