Happiness
Dec 21st 2009, 9:54 am
#121
Account Closed
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,784
Re: Happiness
Agree. Happiness just comes without trying in the main. The only time you strive for it is when you are unhappy and it's seriously hard to attain then.
Dec 21st 2009, 9:55 am
#122
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,668
Re: Happiness
I don't believe that is really true. I reckon you are trying to fill your life with more happy moments* than sad ones. I know I am. So is practically everyone else on this planet.
* not this kind of Happy Moment, which can be found around SE Qld and can be, lets just say, a little painful to handle.
* not this kind of Happy Moment, which can be found around SE Qld and can be, lets just say, a little painful to handle.
But I'm not trying at all. I don't 'try' to fill my life with happy moments any more than I try to fill it with sad moments. I just accept the fluctuations of life as it is. I don't strive for it at all! It's a fairly alien concept to me.
If I recognize that I'm having a really shit time in my life, I don't feel I have to therefore 'become' happy or seek happy moments or even spiky fish to compensate. I just realise a bad moment isn't forever and it's all fluid anyway.
Dec 21st 2009, 9:58 am
#123
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,668
Re: Happiness
Striving for something like happiness is like trying to gain the unobtainable.
Isn't it also about where we find our joy in life? So many people move so quickly through their lives and don't have a chance to smell the roses along the way.
Taking that time to identify where you find your joy is the key, for me I think. Finding the beauty in the dullest of places or things. It's a journey. Not a state you find when you have 'arrived' because we never 'arrive'.
Who was it who said 'When we are ready to die, that is the point where we are most ready to live' or similar.
Dec 21st 2009, 10:15 am
#124
Account Open
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4,298
Re: Happiness
But I'm not trying at all. I don't 'try' to fill my life with happy moments any more than I try to fill it with sad moments. I just accept the fluctuations of life as it is. I don't strive for it at all! It's a fairly alien concept to me.
If I recognize that I'm having a really shit time in my life, I don't feel I have to therefore 'become' happy or seek happy moments or even spiky fish to compensate. I just realise a bad moment isn't forever and it's all fluid anyway.
Let me have another go at trying to say what I mean...Practically every decision that you, me and everyone else makes in their waking lives, can be traced back to a desire to be happy, from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to sleep. Everything we do is fundamentally an attempt to attain some level of happiness, but we never really analyse it at all, we all just go with the flow. We don't need to analyse it.
Also, many of the decisions that we make are misguided and won't bring us any happiness.
Consider this. I got up this morning, had a shower, cleaned my teeth, ironed a shirt, got the little one ready for childcare, and now I'm at work. (very busy as you can see).
Why did I do each and every one of these things? E.g. I didn't need to clean my teeth...I could have survived the day quite easily without doing it. why did I bother ?!
Obviously I don't want my teeth to go bad, I'll be in pain and I'll end up handing over my hard-earned cash to the dentist. (that'll make him happy though). Also I don't want people starting to talk about "the bloke at work who's breath stinks because he doesn't clean his teeth".
But as I stood there cleaning my teeth this morning, I wasn't thinking about any of this stuff... I was probably thinking "I wish I was back in bed, I need more sleep".
Dec 21st 2009, 10:20 am
#125
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,668
Re: Happiness
You are right, I don't conciously "strive" to "fill my life with happy moments" either. I don't wake up in the morning and let some wierd inner voice speak to myself and say "I'm going to be happy today". Let me have another go at trying to say what I mean...
Practically every decision that you, me and everyone else makes in their waking lives, can be traced back to a desire to be happy, from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to sleep. Everything we do is fundamentally an attempt to attain some level of happiness, but we never really analyse it at all, we all just go with the flow. We don't need to analyse it.
Also, many of the decisions that we make are misguided and won't bring us any happiness.
Consider this. I got up this morning, had a shower, cleaned my teeth, ironed a shirt, got the little one ready for childcare, and now I'm at work. (very busy as you can see).
Why did I do each and every one of these things? E.g. I didn't need to clean my teeth...I could have survived the day quite easily without doing it. why did I bother ?!
Obviously I don't want my teeth to go bad, I'll be in pain and I'll end up handing over my hard-earned cash to the dentist. (that'll make him happy though). Also I don't want people starting to talk about "the bloke at work who's breath stinks because he doesn't clean his teeth".
But as I stood there cleaning my teeth this morning, I wasn't thinking about any of this stuff... I was probably thinking "I wish I was back in bed, I need more sleep".
Let me have another go at trying to say what I mean...Practically every decision that you, me and everyone else makes in their waking lives, can be traced back to a desire to be happy, from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to sleep. Everything we do is fundamentally an attempt to attain some level of happiness, but we never really analyse it at all, we all just go with the flow. We don't need to analyse it.
Also, many of the decisions that we make are misguided and won't bring us any happiness.
Consider this. I got up this morning, had a shower, cleaned my teeth, ironed a shirt, got the little one ready for childcare, and now I'm at work. (very busy as you can see).
Why did I do each and every one of these things? E.g. I didn't need to clean my teeth...I could have survived the day quite easily without doing it. why did I bother ?!
Obviously I don't want my teeth to go bad, I'll be in pain and I'll end up handing over my hard-earned cash to the dentist. (that'll make him happy though). Also I don't want people starting to talk about "the bloke at work who's breath stinks because he doesn't clean his teeth".
But as I stood there cleaning my teeth this morning, I wasn't thinking about any of this stuff... I was probably thinking "I wish I was back in bed, I need more sleep".
But there's a huge difference between consciously 'striving' for happiness and on the other hand, unconsciously 'being' and 'living' in a state where happiness is there... without the conscious striving.
If we all have this capacity to be naturally happy, does this not mean those that are striving to be happy are missing the whole point in the first place.
...That it's naturally inerrant in us to be happy. Whether it be pleasure seeking, or whether it be evolution by trying to get to a higher place...
Last edited by TiddlyPom; Dec 21st 2009 at 10:22 am. Reason: shite spelin
Dec 21st 2009, 10:21 am
#126
Account Open
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4,298
Re: Happiness
Isn't it also about where we find our joy in life? So many people move so quickly through their lives and don't have a chance to smell the roses along the way.
Taking that time to identify where you find your joy is the key, for me I think. Finding the beauty in the dullest of places or things. It's a journey. Not a state you find when you have 'arrived' because we never 'arrive'.
Taking that time to identify where you find your joy is the key, for me I think. Finding the beauty in the dullest of places or things. It's a journey. Not a state you find when you have 'arrived' because we never 'arrive'.
We all need to find time to do this... it is very tricky. We need the freedom to do this. Whether in the literal sense of the word (as in, being free and not locked up in jail) or in the sense that we need freedom to make choices that will hopefully make us happy. If that makes any sense...
Dec 21st 2009, 10:23 am
#127
Account Open
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4,298
Re: Happiness
Then humans are naturally pleasure seeking creatures... If you think everything is down to making ourselves happy, and we seek this pleasure naturally, then is this not an acknowledgement that we all have the capacity to be naturally happy?
But there's a huge difference between consciously 'striving' for happiness and on the other hand, unconsciously 'being' and 'living' in a state where happiness is there... without the conscious striving.
If we all have this capacity to be naturally happy, does this not mean those that are striving to be happy are missing the whole point in the first place.
...That it's naturally inerrant in us to be happy. Whether it be pleasure seeking, or whether it be evolution by trying to get to a higher place...
But there's a huge difference between consciously 'striving' for happiness and on the other hand, unconsciously 'being' and 'living' in a state where happiness is there... without the conscious striving.
If we all have this capacity to be naturally happy, does this not mean those that are striving to be happy are missing the whole point in the first place.
...That it's naturally inerrant in us to be happy. Whether it be pleasure seeking, or whether it be evolution by trying to get to a higher place...
edit - I think that the experiences of many expats on this forum are interesting. There are numerous posts describing how people moved to Australia, bought a big house, swimming pool, 4wds, had the trips to the beach, etc etc... but then they moved back home to the UK 12months later.
Last edited by asprilla; Dec 21st 2009 at 10:32 am.
Dec 21st 2009, 10:34 am
#128
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,668
Re: Happiness
I agree completely !
We all need to find time to do this... it is very tricky. We need the freedom to do this. Whether in the literal sense of the word (as in, being free and not locked up in jail) or in the sense that we need freedom to make choices that will hopefully make us happy. If that makes any sense...
We all need to find time to do this... it is very tricky. We need the freedom to do this. Whether in the literal sense of the word (as in, being free and not locked up in jail) or in the sense that we need freedom to make choices that will hopefully make us happy. If that makes any sense...
Have you ever read Terry Waite's book? It's about his time in captivity... it's very good. There's a story in that about how he receives a postcard with a stained glass pic on the front, with John Bunyan in it (who was imprisoned in jail for religious beliefs and who then wrote Pilgrim's progress whilst there)... Anyway, he gets this postcard, which is surreal considering even the Red Cross don't know where he is... and he speaks about the joy it gives him in that moment and how focussing on that feeling gets him through. It's the simplest thing (or the most complex thing, depending on how you want to look at it) but it's the moment of joy that makes it for him.
Sorry - just your 'locked up' bit found that in my consciousness somewhere.
I think that we are all free to make choices here in Australia and much of the western world. The only thing that constrains us, is actually ourselves... living off the script as I was talking about earlier.
Some make the same mistake over and over... like the guy banging his head on the brick wall, it feels nice when he stops. But we all have the freedom here to make our own choices, to examine why we keep hitting our heads and to take steps to stop that. Conscious decision making perhaps, to back up the subconscious desire for pleasure....
Dec 21st 2009, 10:36 am
#129
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,668
Re: Happiness
I agree completely.
edit - I think that the experiences of many expats on this forum are interesting. There are numerous posts describing how people moved to Australia, bought a big house, swimming pool, 4wds, had the trips to the beach, etc etc... but then they moved back home to the UK 12months later.
edit - I think that the experiences of many expats on this forum are interesting. There are numerous posts describing how people moved to Australia, bought a big house, swimming pool, 4wds, had the trips to the beach, etc etc... but then they moved back home to the UK 12months later.
I think the idea of changing your life is that you still bring yourself with you....
Perhaps those that succeed are the ones who are most adaptable to change in themselves also. ?
Dec 21st 2009, 11:14 am
#130
Account Open
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4,298
Re: Happiness
Of course it makes total sense...
Have you ever read Terry Waite's book? It's about his time in captivity... it's very good. There's a story in that about how he receives a postcard with a stained glass pic on the front, with John Bunyan in it (who was imprisoned in jail for religious beliefs and who then wrote Pilgrim's progress whilst there)... Anyway, he gets this postcard, which is surreal considering even the Red Cross don't know where he is... and he speaks about the joy it gives him in that moment and how focussing on that feeling gets him through. It's the simplest thing (or the most complex thing, depending on how you want to look at it) but it's the moment of joy that makes it for him.
Sorry - just your 'locked up' bit found that in my consciousness somewhere.
I think that we are all free to make choices here in Australia and much of the western world. The only thing that constrains us, is actually ourselves... living off the script as I was talking about earlier.
Some make the same mistake over and over... like the guy banging his head on the brick wall, it feels nice when he stops. But we all have the freedom here to make our own choices, to examine why we keep hitting our heads and to take steps to stop that. Conscious decision making perhaps, to back up the subconscious desire for pleasure....
Have you ever read Terry Waite's book? It's about his time in captivity... it's very good. There's a story in that about how he receives a postcard with a stained glass pic on the front, with John Bunyan in it (who was imprisoned in jail for religious beliefs and who then wrote Pilgrim's progress whilst there)... Anyway, he gets this postcard, which is surreal considering even the Red Cross don't know where he is... and he speaks about the joy it gives him in that moment and how focussing on that feeling gets him through. It's the simplest thing (or the most complex thing, depending on how you want to look at it) but it's the moment of joy that makes it for him.
Sorry - just your 'locked up' bit found that in my consciousness somewhere.
I think that we are all free to make choices here in Australia and much of the western world. The only thing that constrains us, is actually ourselves... living off the script as I was talking about earlier.
Some make the same mistake over and over... like the guy banging his head on the brick wall, it feels nice when he stops. But we all have the freedom here to make our own choices, to examine why we keep hitting our heads and to take steps to stop that. Conscious decision making perhaps, to back up the subconscious desire for pleasure....
Yes, we're lucky living here, we have a great deal of freedom in this country compared to many others. Freedom to live our lives the way we want to - and also, freedom to live our lives "by the script" in the way that most people tend to, if that is what we desire and believe will make us happy.
Dec 21st 2009, 11:31 am
#131
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,668
Re: Happiness
Haven't read that one... it sounds like an interesting read ! Another book worth reading is "status anxiety" by alain de botton, its a very easy & interesting read.
Yes, we're lucky living here, we have a great deal of freedom in this country compared to many others. Freedom to live our lives the way we want to - and also, freedom to live our lives "by the script" in the way that most people tend to, if that is what we desire and believe will make us happy.
Yes, we're lucky living here, we have a great deal of freedom in this country compared to many others. Freedom to live our lives the way we want to - and also, freedom to live our lives "by the script" in the way that most people tend to, if that is what we desire and believe will make us happy.
Alain de Botton is excellent but I haven't read the status one.
Dec 21st 2009, 1:21 pm
#133
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Happiness
I also don't think anyone can be in a state of continual happiness (perhaps that's what substance abusers are looking for?), some kind of everlasting utopic euphoria. In order to be happy, sad, angry etc (all emotions) we need to have comparisons in our lives so we can identify when we are in what state.
I was mad happy when I got my driver's license but did that last? Did it stop me cursing under my breath at other drivers' later? NO, of course it didn't. Had I forgotten how elated (a type of happiness or joy) I had been at attaining it? Most probably.
Interesting that Buddhism believes man becomes free when he lets go of desire, and that it is desire that causes vast amounts of suffering. I don't particularly ascribe to this view as I believe without some desire and perserverance, much of what we take for granted today would never have been. But, perhaps there is an element of truth in it, in that we all too readily get caught up in a multitude of desires that only serve to imprison rather than free us.
Dec 21st 2009, 2:15 pm
#134
Account Closed
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,784
Re: Happiness
Tend to agree with this. I think happiness is largely an unintended, unplanned byproduct of spontaneous actions. Those who TRY ('strive' sounds a bit like climbing Mt.Everest IMO) to be happy seem to be applying themselves to a generalised idea of what will bring this elusive and intangible thing into their lives.
I also don't think anyone can be in a state of continual happiness (perhaps that's what substance abusers are looking for?), some kind of everlasting utopic euphoria. In order to be happy, sad, angry etc (all emotions) we need to have comparisons in our lives so we can identify when we are in what state.
I was mad happy when I got my driver's license but did that last? Did it stop me cursing under my breath at other drivers' later? NO, of course it didn't. Had I forgotten how elated (a type of happiness or joy) I had been at attaining it? Most probably.
Interesting that Buddhism believes man becomes free when he lets go of desire, and that it is desire that causes vast amounts of suffering. I don't particularly ascribe to this view as I believe without some desire and perserverance, much of what we take for granted today would never have been. But, perhaps there is an element of truth in it, in that we all too readily get caught up in a multitude of desires that only serve to imprison rather than free us.
I also don't think anyone can be in a state of continual happiness (perhaps that's what substance abusers are looking for?), some kind of everlasting utopic euphoria. In order to be happy, sad, angry etc (all emotions) we need to have comparisons in our lives so we can identify when we are in what state.
I was mad happy when I got my driver's license but did that last? Did it stop me cursing under my breath at other drivers' later? NO, of course it didn't. Had I forgotten how elated (a type of happiness or joy) I had been at attaining it? Most probably.
Interesting that Buddhism believes man becomes free when he lets go of desire, and that it is desire that causes vast amounts of suffering. I don't particularly ascribe to this view as I believe without some desire and perserverance, much of what we take for granted today would never have been. But, perhaps there is an element of truth in it, in that we all too readily get caught up in a multitude of desires that only serve to imprison rather than free us.
Dec 21st 2009, 4:18 pm
#135
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Ellenbrook western australia
Posts: 1,034
Re: Happiness
If you can see one of your children making bad choices it is very hard to be happy.I can pretend to be happy but I guess that is not the same thing.Sue.
