TiddlyPom

See, that's quite funny Bloke. I actually follow 49ers, but I was talking about the Eagles (as in Hotel California) doing the Superbowl.

Pollyana

Coherent.....well, just about I think, that was a serious amount of alcohol and the boss is now broke

And you know what? True friends will always be there, in spite of what they say, in spite of what they may think of you at the time, in spite of any disagreements, they are always there at the very moment you need them.

sarab40

I totally agree with you...friends are just gold.
True ones are always there for you
Gx

Pollyana

Maybe people do have the right to think they should be happy, I don't know, I tend to think of that state of mind as something which needs to be earned, not something we should get automatically.
Ok, bad use of the word "all", bit of a generalisation, but I still think the majority of people feel that way.

Its a bit like seeing happiness as good karma, do we have the right to that happiness when we have done nothing to earn it?


Agreed, it is a state of mind - for an undetermined period of time - but there are people who feel they should be happy, whatever, that they have a right to be happy, and if there are people or things in the world preventing that happiness from happening then those things should just be removed.

Yes, I am very caught up with it, I guess it is down to my upbringing, in an environment where pleasing people outside of the family was always more important than pleasing ourselves. being "unhappy" was almost expected, sacrificing what oneself wanted in order to provide happiness or fulfilment for someone outside of the family circle. To actually aim to please oneslef was almost an alien concept - and childhood conditioning like that is hard to shake off.

No, I don't think I have the power to make someone else happy, I don't think anyone has that power, but I do feel that we can help someone else to achieve a happy state of mind, and sometimes I'm sure most of us do go beyond the call of duty to try and help someone else feel good - often with disastrous results. Comes down to how well we know someone else I guess, and only when you really know someone else's psyche inside-out can you truly know what will make them happy.
I just feel its largely imaginary because so many people strive for it - yet never achieve it, because for many of us once we reach what we think is a state of happiness, we are already striving for something else, further on......

I actually feel quite content with the majority of my life at present. I don't really want to allow anything else into it, and although there are parts of it I would change, I am reasonably content with the way it is. If anything though, that makes me think why would I want to change it? Most of it is OK, so what is it that makes me think sometimes there should be more than this? I know a couple of other people with much the same feeling, people I work with, they have money, jobs, partners/families, yet they still want something more.

Most of the thinking behind this thread wasn't even me looking for something more, something else, it really was a train of thought around WHY do people constantly strive for more, why do they want more than they have.
Work is an excellent example, I have a job I love, I wouldn't change it for the world, yet people around me keep suggesting I go for other positions,they can't understand that I am content where I am, I don't want to move to anything else, I am happy. Its almost as if its a concept people don't understand, they can't comprehend that I don't want more, I AM where I want to be.
I stopped, Last night it was a good night with too many cocktails, and tonight was - well - lets just say it had every extreme possible, and only an average amount of cider.

Excellent thought-provoking answer TP, and I'll bet I'm not the only one who thinks that

TiddlyPom

And yet, if you think of a child a few months old ... it smiles and laughs. People point out how happy it is. There are very few naturally unhappy children... until of course family conditioning or treatment gets in the way....
Do you think that child needs to earn that happiness?

Surely a child 'just is' happy?

We don't look at the child and say 'How dare it be happy! It has not yet earned the right to be happy! It must be stopped!' .... do we?

We accept the childlike state. It's natural to be happy.

Why do you see yourself as having done nothing to earn it?
Is not being in existence enough for you? Being part of a wider part of society? Interacting with that society and therefore bringing something to others?
Do you not feel that just by being human you have every right to feel happiness because simply, as shown by children, happiness is a natural state that you too can share in. It's not exclusive to a child. It is therefore, still within you to be happy. It's in there, you just don't know where because your script is running your life.


Yes there are those people who fall into the latter category. I am one of them. I could go into detail but I won't, but suffice it to say, as an example, I choose (and that is an important word here) to only have people in my life who are 100% behind me. Not a little here, not 85%, a little there, not 'mostly', but 100%. Is that cruel of me to therefore cut people out of my life who choose (that word again) not to be 100% for me?
Of course not! Why would you expect only half a friend? Or two thirds of a friend? Or three quarters of a friend?
I make decisions for myself to keep myself in a healthy place. I guess this comes from knowing who I am and knowing what I can put up with. I put in place healthy boundaries for ME. Is that selfish?
I think it is probably more selfish to let people walk all over your feelings and then get in a massive huff about it all. Then they're hurt and you're angry... and none of you have a clue what the hell just happened.

Who are these people who 'expect' this? I don't know any but you may. OR, this is your interpretation on how they're living and what they're doing. Have you asked them about it or are you just assuming that's how they feel?

I have met the odd tosser who believes the world owes them a living... 'Poor damaged me, damaged by my circumstances and therefore you must all pay'... Whoa! What script are they reading from?

As a generally happy person, I can tell you that i have suffered from deep unhappiness... so I am not walking around in a little bubble all day like I'm on drugs. You know I've been very ill with thyroid problems, gained and lost 100lb or so, had a very unhappy marriage, and a subsequent divorce.
I'm not immune to being unhappy.
However, I do believe that we have control over our own lives. We're not victims of life. We always always have a choice in the way we behave.

My gaining of control was to seek and then seek some more a really good doctor who would accurately treat my thyroid problem.
Then I started to exercise more. I lost weight because my body was healing. I inched back to being the happy person I was.
I would say at this point, it was obvious as I gained more control over my physical condition, and my own internal joy at finding myself still in there, that my marriage started to decline rapidly. Did I have a lack of balance about my state then? Yes absolutely. Did my husband feel threatened by me looking pretty and slim? Absolutely he did. Did he rejoice in my accomplishment? No, he went the other way and tried to control everything. Do I have controlling people in my life any more? No. Do I sit and take abuse from people any more? No.
I choose not to have these things in my life. I am healthier for it.

Ker-ching! You have identified your family script!
This is good news.
Being able to identify your family game, is the first step to enlightenment!
That should make you happy.
Oh yeah, I can totally agree with you how hard childhood conditioning is to shake off. I come from a family where they believe there is a family gypsy curse which affects everyone. (good excuse no, for when you stuff up... 'Oh it must be the curse which made me poor, not the fact that I'm crap with money')
We were also bought up in a vicarage, being told to eat, eat, eat... whilst being surrounded by Christian Aid posters of starving children... Whoa... bit of guilt in there?
There's lots more... lots of baggage from illegitimacy on one side, through to possible personality disorder on another, with a bit of emotional abuse thrown in...So I hear you.
BUT it is possible to do. You do not have to accept their script as your own. You do not have to play the little family game. You can opt out. It is a choice.


I doubt this last statement I've bolded. This is your experience... not that of everyone.
Of course we go beyond the call of duty sometimes but not all the time. I can honestly say I do not go around all the time wondering how to make people happy. It actually rarely occurs to me. Is that because the people around me are generally happy? Perhaps? Or perhaps by being happy myself, then my children are happy and my partner is happy.
I think of my friends and they are happy I guess. But if my friends are in need or want to talk, or sound off, or whatever, I'd bend over backwards for them. Perhaps I attract happy people because I am happy myself? (Law of attraction book I mentioned)
Certainly the times I have put effort into creating pleasure for someone (pleasure as opposed to happiness) has not backfired in any way, ever, that I can think of.

It is quite possible that your expectation of the outcome is totally skewed. You are creating pleasure for people... you imagine you are making them happy... removing their unhappiness, in other words. You cannot remove someone's intrinsic unhappiness with your actions. That's down to them.

Not really. For example, I know my mother extremely well, but I haven't got a clue what will make her happy. After years of trying to make her happy, nothing ever worked. Not a present, not cleaning the kitchen until it shone (got a slap in the face for that one actually - must have been about 12 or so), not sending flowers, not anything really. But then she's not happy in herself. So I can't make her happy. Only she can do that.
You could guess... you know certain things that might really please people...but is that happiness?

I personally believe happiness is intrinsic. It's within us.
Being unhappy is our body/mind's way of saying 'Hey you... what's going on... sort it out'.
I believe that we all have instinct and some of us push it down and down... but if we take time to listen to ourselves, we hear ourselves crying out for help.
Your cry for help is to start this thread and it's a good way to go, to gather opinion and encourage discussion. You're wanting to find an answer. It's the start of a process for you. It's good.



I think that unless you've polled an entire sample of the worlds population you really don't have a clue whether 'so many people strive' for happiness or not. And you certainly don't know whether they never achieve it. You don't know all these people until the end of their lives do you? So you truly don't know if they've been happy or not.
The only people you would know and that you'd seen to the end of their lives would be close friends and family members once again...
This is your family script talking again... It's not the truth. It's generations of stories, built up on top of each other, telling you how to live your life and how you must behave.

Do you really? Is not being happy so consuming you that you started a thought provoking discussion on a huge internet discussion board? I would read that differently than being 'quite content'.
That's your script again. You've got your lot in life and you must be therefore, 'quite content' with it all... but deep down there's a nagging feeling that you're really not happy, you don't know why and you want to change it.


I detect a note of fear. Who said anything about allowing anything into it?

There it is again ... reasonably content, quite content.

This means that you are not content. You either are or you are not content. It's not something you can use half measures with.

Here's your family script talking again. You're talking yourself out of action. Why would you want to change it? You're obviously unhappy. You don't know truly why, but you've identified a place to start, but yeah, let's not rock the boat. Let's not change anything... After all you don't live in Ethiopia... you must be grateful for what you've got... don't change things... just keep on doing what you're doing...

The thing is Polly, you're looking at this as some monumental life changing scenario and truly, all it is, at the end of the day, is really only changing the way you're thinking, Polly. In turn, that may well affect your life and the choices you make for yourself, but it's ok to want that. It's ok to want to be happy. And it's ok to change your mind. It's ok to think differently to your family. It's not wrong or bad.

Most of it is ok? Well if you were about to sell me your life and I was a potential buyer... can I just say that I wouldn't be parting with my cash.

Maybe because they're not happy in themselves. You can have all the money and security in the world and still make poor decisions for yourself, Pol. Money does not equate happiness as we all know. Perhaps they'll get religion... perhaps they're using their happy family front to hide a bad marriage... Who knows?

Really? I doubt that. I think it is what it is. You're starting a thought process which involves you...

Perhaps because they can see your potential, whereas your family have always settled for what they've got. They're also not the ones reading from YOUR family script, hence they're quite able to see your potential and the possibilities for you.
You cannot possibly say that you wouldn't enjoy the other jobs, the other promotions because you haven't taken them on and done them. You might not fancy a job description on paper...but you don't truly know what you're capable of. Family script talking again my dear... I'm happy with my lot, why should I have more in my life? Very noble of you Poll....

Well I should ask you 'Why shouldn't you?'

Well you started it.

soapy©

do you two wanna get a room

TiddlyPom

Let me share a karma message I got:

'great to see a thread thats not been dragged down to the usual "Mrs slocombe" level'

iamthecreaturefromuranus

Are you on the left or the right?

TiddlyPom

I think you'll find it's Soapy in the pic.

soapy©

IM ON THE RIGHT

iamthecreaturefromuranus

Nice hair.

Pollyana

No, I don't feel that I have the right just because I'm human. I feel that I need to earn good fortune/happiness/whatever you call it - like karma, as I said before - as if you get what you deserve from life.

Talking about it can work wonders though, so you find out what happened, and why, and then the friendship moves on - maybe with a deeper undertanding on both sides.
I've met them too. I can't subscribe to that way of thinking. If someone can get as far as realising they are damaged by their circumstances then surely they are capable of reaching out for help? Although you can't force them to take the help though, and I think there are some people in the world who actually don't want rescuing from that damaged state.

Definitely, there's always a choice, even if its a path you don't want to take at the time.
Been there and done that many moons ago, I know all the family stuff underlying my own character and motivations, and although some of the conditioning is hard to shake off I am now at peace with the majority of it, and can recognise it for what it is.
I wouldn't suggest its something that happens all the time - of course I don't spend my whole life wondering how to make people happy, but its like doing a good turn that backfires. Most people will recognise that from some point in their lives I'm sure, doing something or saying something, behaving in a certain way which you think is the right thing and ending up causing pain instead of pleasure to the other person.
Maybe its not an experience you've had?
Kind-of, but not really. Just wanting the opinions and discussion really, in a late-night reflective frame of mind. Not really crying for help as such, did that long ago and received the help too, so this was more of a process of tinkig out loud - instead of talking to myself to think things out I thought I'd put the thoughts on here instead

Actually I do really feel quite content at present. The reason for starting the discussion was just cos I was mulling over something that happened that night and just got to wondering about other people's thoughts on the subject. Reckoned it would be interesting to hear what other people thought about that elusive state of "happiness".......


No, I don't agree with that, I think it is quite possible to be reasonably content, and that is the way I feel. Not 100% content with my life, but certainly OK at the moment


No, I wouldn't be buying it either, but its certainly a lot better than some of the lives I could've had.

Eactly, who knows, it is interesting though just to wonder at what makes them tick - what makes them happy?
Honestly, that is why I started it - a train of thought as to why people - me included at times - strive for more out of life, and keep thinking there must be a better life there for them somewhere.

No, I might enjoy them, but is it worth the gamble when I already have one I thoroughly enjoy, that I really worked hard to get, and that puts a smile on my face. Not noble at all, I just like it, I enjoy it, and don't intend to walk away from it. And the people who try to persuade me to apply elsewhere have no idea of my capabilities - or of my interests, to judge by some of the jobs they have suggested Those who do know my skills well enough to offer career guidance aren't suggesting a move at all because they are well aware that I have found my professional niche.

soapy©

Thanks, my fave colour

kiwi_child

My thoughts FWTW is that we are conditioned to look for happiness and that if we don't find it, somehow we are losers. People think all kinds of things will bring them happiness, materialism, service to others, status,etc Interesting the US BOR speaks about the pursuit of it, not the attainment though

I think what most of us think of as happiness is a set of romantised notions, mr/miss right, the dream home, dream career, perfect family, etc Infact i think happiness is the WRONG word for most of us and CONTENTMENT or SATISFACTION would be more apt.

Moments of actual happiness I have found to be fleeting, few, and far between, and interestingly cost little or virually nothing of economic value. One of the most memorable happy moments I recall is some years ago going to a large pond/lake to feed the ducks and have some time to reflect. There I found a little boy (about 5) and his sister(about 3-4). As they watched me feed the ducks, I gave them each a slice of bread and they then proceeded to break it up and feed the ducks too. As this happened I spotted a woman (assume mother) who just looked at me and smiled. In this moment I TRULY FELT HAPPY.

I think to answer your question, we each have an inner longing to connect to others in a meaningful way and to just appreciate life and to find our real (inner) path in life. I think that is really what all this happiness malarky is about.
May we all find that state of being

asprilla

But the happy child that you describe above, is only happy because it has food, shelter and companionship. These are the keys to being happy, for adults and children alike.