birdynumnum

The Dalai Lama's got it sussed

My religion is very simple
my religion is kindness

Swerv-o

But maybe that's the point. Science develops hypotheses, works to prove or disprove them through experiment and observation, then accepts, rejects or adapts the theories in the face of the evidence.

Religion doesn't do that - it all relies on blind faith and varying interpretation. And because of that, it never grows or evolves with time, or the circumstances in which it find itself.

A classic example of this being the failure of the Catholic church to endorse contraception in Africa. Surely this is really only Imperialism in another guise?

S

Pollyana

Just to throw a little word in here - in case anyone was wondering Mr Wonkothesane didn't end up having his posts mod-ded cos they offended someone, but just cos he's a new poster
Welcome to the madhouse, and I think your posts should be sorted now

arkon

Then there's the Catholic's endorsement of the Nazi's during WW2. Apparently Hitler went to the then pope and came to an understanding that allowed him to do what he then went on to do. By all accounts if the Catholics had sayed no to hitler then he wouldn't have done what he did.( to the Jews I mean).

birdynumnum

Unbelievable, I didnt know that

arkon

I don't believe there needs to be any element of truth to it as it's human nature to collect together in groups. It seems to be a primeval need to group together based on a common bond, for protection and survival. Eventually one group gets a bit big and starts to bully other groups, so it's only natural for the more weaker memers of the race to throw in with a strong group for protection. By weaker I mean physically weaker or mentally not able to defend themselves or family.

Take religious people, vicars, ministers and their flocks, not your usual strong man type that would be any good in a fight, yet become very strong through religious doctrine, able to survive as a group through shear numbers not individual strength. That's personally why I think religion came about and stays with us, a method of the physically weaker to survive. Things like being anti contraception is a great method to grow your numbers, so why not weave it into your religion. All just my opinion of course.

arkon

Yes, I had a German language tutor a few years back, who went into great lengths to give us the history of Nazi Germany and it's links to the church. Once again, which religion and church actually benefited from the hollocaust? Wasn't the Jews that's for sure.

birdynumnum

Absoloutely.
And how many people have died in wars in the name of religion over the centuries.
Off topic a bit
Today, you also have the non religious types who still need to believe in something going for whole new age thing.

esperanza

I think religion definitely does adapt according to social pressures, it's just that it will only do what it has to do to a) survive b) stay as powerful as possible. For example, in Britain there has been acceptance of female clergy'men' and even discussion over gay vicars etc and homosexual blessings/weddings in churches, because that is what was acceptable to a lot of people in Britain. Similarly they had to cave over contraception, and are facing strong debate over abortion.
In countries where women hold less political power, the church does not need to respect their freedoms and choices - why bother, the church is mainly run by men anyway.
It's nothing new, in the middleages women became a threat to the all-powerful catholic church and so they demonised them, with witch hunts and burnings at the stake etc. (And that brilliant 'ducking stool' test, foolproof that was! There's an excellent Simpsons on witch hunts. )

Hutch

Honestly? I think it's a crutch. Lots of people can't handle the idea that when you die, that's it - no shining white light, no tunnel, no reception at the pearly gates by dead family members, no eternity in some endlessly peaceful afterlife. They can't get their heads around the fact that we're simply biological entities with a fairly limited lifespan and that at some point the machine that is our bodies will stop functioning.

ragner

Do you think if the war would have carried on for longer or the germans had won that Hitler would not have gone back on this apparent "understanding".
Look what he did to that other nutter Stalin,split up Poland between them in the early days then once this understanding had run out he invaded Poland then Russia.
Hitler had a problem with the pope ,due to the fact that the Catholic Religion did not have international borders but had a much much bigger following than the Nazis and if he had decided to kill the pope he would have had a huge religious war on his hands which would involve all catholics from all over the world including catholics in his armed forces aswell as a fair percentage of the German population.But as the years went on in the war ,he did indeed hatch a plan to secretly kidnap the pope,it didn't even get to stage 1 as the officer he put in charge could see the implecations so basically told Hitler it was a no go as the catholics knew there was a plot.
But if the war would have gone on for longer Hitler may well have ordered it as the nutter lost the plot in the end .
So we might have ended up with a 20th centurary crusade but instead of the muslims it would have been the nazis.

esperanza

have you read Fatherland? It's fan-bloody-tastic, i think - set in a hypothetical future where the nazis won the war and took over the world.

(PS I don't think it's fantastic that the nazis won, btw, just that it's a fantastic book!)

wren

The dead sea scrolls were discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves along the northwest shore of the dead sea.

They comprise of the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found, dating back to 100-200BC. Is this not evidence that the prophecies contained in todays old testament are the same Messianic prophecies that existed prior to the time of Jesus?

Micah 5:2 Jesus birth place

Isiah53:9 Burial

Psalm22- prophecy about Jesus death

Isiah 7:14 virgin birth

Big Galah- you are right- no man can predict the future. The debate is about whether God exists, the bible is "true" etc ie these prophecies are God speaking through man.

There's some awful things done in the name of science but we don't just write it off because we don't understand it.

themerlin

Yes and put that with the so called god gene and you have trouble !

northerner

I'll take you on Arkon

I'm not deeply religious but I don't think I'm mentally or physically weaker than you or anyone else for considering that God exists.

Again, I'd suggest that to believe in SOMETHING takes more balls than to believe in NOTHING - certainly in this day and age where you're generally considered wierd if you go to Church. So I don't think you can call it a crutch at all.

Graham