northerner

I don't think people who follow are 'blind' at all. Perhaps even the opposite Arkon? Perhaps it is people who tumble along in life and start discussions on public forums about what a load of crap they've found the Bible to be who are blind?

Not meant rudely.

Graham

Wol

I'm sorry but I think your attitude sums up the problem with religions.

Almost no-one on this thread has *absolutely* rubbished religion: most of us are willing to be convinced if there is a shred of *real* evidence.

An example of the scientific way of thinking (and I've used it before): It *is* possible for a table to levitate. It is possible that all the molecules making up the atmosphere below the table could all be flying upwards at the same time. In fact, on the microscopic scale it's called Brownian Motion and is readily observable. However, the chance of it happening on the macro scale are vanishingly remote. Hence, if I say that a table levitating is impossible, it has to be qualified by saying it just *could* happen once in a trillion lifetimes of the universe. But for me, that's good enough to make the statement "true".

In the same way, the "existence" of (a) god, apart from being by definition unproveable, is I suppose "possible". However in my estimation it has a very low likelihood and has certainly never been demonstrated to my satisfaction.

Don't erect straw man arguments and use them to infer things said by others - it is classic "religion" <g>.

northerner

What's my attitude then? Please tell me.

arkon

Yes, but how do you know there is a god? How do you know he created everything? What causes you to believe it? I would like to suggest you only believe what you do due to what other humans have told you and indoctrinated you. How can you be sure what you have been told is the truth? Just because we live in a beutifull world doesn't mean that a God had to create it. Isn't it equally possible that nature is as nature does?

arkon

This morning I've just finnished watching a documentary on the holocaust. There was a part in it where a senior rabi was waiting in line for the gas chamber. They did 3 batches a day, he was in the last batch. He told his people that God would not let this happen to them, by this point they knew they were going to be killed. When it came to his groups turn at the end of the day he announced to the remaining group, 'For god to allow this to happen, there can be no god' and renounced his faith.

I find it unacceptable for people to believe in God, yet brush under the carpet all the suufering and cruelty that goes on in the world. Not just the crimes done under God's name but all of them. For you or any other religious believer to have any chance of convincing the rest of us, you need to do better at comming up with a reason why god allows the needless slaughter of woman, children, the weak and lame. If an all powerfull god truely existed none of these crimes would happen, So for me a good enough reason to doubt a god's existance. I'm more likely to belive in a sun god, afterall the sun does indeed rise every day and give us warmth and food....

Hutch

lol! It's all a conspiracy mate ... rather than, say, a simple mistake. Actually, it's probably because I'm a godless arsehole.

I shall await the knock on the door ...

themerlin

So was my aunt, maybe they all claim to be one of the first

iPom

Really? That's cool. Yes, I think there was a group of them all together. I don't know if my aunt's still in touch with any though. She's left and gone into the hospital chaplaincy thing....

Uncle Fester

I love the smell of religious argument in the morning

Hutch

Yea, similar with my aunt. Not entirely sure what she's up to, but both he and she left the vicarage to pursue other things. She used to do quite a few Thought for the Days too ... and was on Question Time once as well.

iPom

It must be an 'aunt' thing...

northerner

I do hope the ensuing slap on the wrist sets you on the straight and narrow again Hutch

Graham

Uncle Fester

I like your Avatar - isn't that what 'christians' used to do to 'wiches' (or anyone else who didn't agree with them)?

themerlin

Maybe we are all related and don't know it

khoardiroy

Yes I agree its God that causes all the suffering and pain and poverty. Not humans and their greed and selfishness. Bloody hell I wish there was a God who denied us freewill and just bossed us about; and we had no choice but were forced to worship him....then you might believe. That is what you want.

Oh and isn't science wonderful and exact...except when Copernicus realises that the earth rotates around the sun...then we change what science says is fact. But that will never happen again. Just as the bible is factual and does not use images and allegories. Oh no.

By the way if the earth was created in 7 days and the sun and earth were not completed before it started...then who says a day was 24 hours (the bible doesn't). Could be a couple of million years. Hmm then evolution works.

faith is not blind. But our belief in history is.

We all believe in Aristotle.... all though there are more documents and accounts of Jesus than big Arty and more recent...but hey it suits to dismiss anything that challenges our selfish lifestyle. Choose to believe what you want but don't insult others choices whether you believe in it or not.