Beoz

Those who voted to leave voted against the political elite. A system they felt had long neglected their needs. Refugees was one driver, subsidies another. Change was what they wanted.

Yep. No one knows what it will deliver but change is a certainty and its what the people asked for.

Beoz

Head in sand stuff as usual. One of my good pals voted to leave and he is married to a Pakistani. You really have no idea with such statements.

Thairetired2016

I doubt very much Lesotho resp. the capital Maseru come under this title. I spent a no. of years there. S.Africa esp. Jo'burg and surrounds are bad. Yet there are parts which would not qualify for this title like the Freestate (Bloemfontein).

OzTennis

Why is the accepted analysis 'head in sand' stuff? People who fear people different to themselves or long for glory days of the past would appear to be the ostriches.

Your pal and his Pakistani wife are anecdotal evidence; we can't extrapolate that to 46,501,241 intentions. I think you are saying an Englishman with a Pakistani wife can't be racist or immigration couldn't be an important issue to him? (which is nonsense if it is what you intended)

The BBC analysis immediately after the referendum attributed the unexpected result to 8 main factors which I'll elaborate if you wish:

1 Brexit economic warnings, e.g. by Mark Carney, backfired (they didn't predict GFC therefore they are wrong).
2 The 'we can save £350 mill a week and divert it to the NHS' was believed.
3 Farage made immigration the defining issue.
4 The public stopped listening to Cameron.
5 Labour failed to connect to voters, Corbyn's lukewarm support for Remain.
6 Enter Boris Johnson and Michael Gove who appeal to the right.
7 Older voters turned out in force, younger voters didn't, older ones had a greater propensity to vote Leave.
8 Europe has always been slightly alien to Brits.

Beoz

Surprisingly the BBC didn't sight racism as an reason. That's very unlike such left wing drama publications.

bcworld

Wales? No, as a country they voted for Brexit.

OzTennis

As said previously, if some people say immigration is a concern in a referendum it allows them to legitimise racism by pretending they aren't.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-leave-brexit

scrubbedexpat098

I assume that 'some' would be aimed at someone else? Not the person you're conversing with at the time because that is an intesely insulting thing to call someone. The racism card is becoming tired and dog eared. To have genuine fears about massive influxes of migrants is not racist, it's human.

old.sparkles

Thanks BC - should have checked before posting.

scrubbedexpat098

Yeah, check your facts haha

Beoz

Actually the reverse is true.

Weak minded, shallow, left wingers, use the immigration debate to throw the racist card around.

Its such a harsh thing to call someone, that in the past its been used shoot down any immigration debate. Thankfully the world is waking up.

And left wingers still can't figure out that open borders is a disaster for the world.

PS. No need to post left wing propaganda links. I don't read them - especially when it says the Guardian somewhere in it.

OzTennis

Deflection as ever. What was being discussed, by me anyway, is why Brexit succeeded. I've listed the reasons which you can dispute if you wish but you haven't. The number one issue was immigration and I've made the point that being concerned about the level of immigration legitimises feelings of racism which a lot of people in the UK have. You are making some feeble point that if it is described as concern about immigration it can't possibly contain an element of racism by some.

Please quote where I have recommended 'open borders'. Like Trump you exaggerate the ease with which one can emigrate to a country like the UK or US or Australia.

List the reasons why one should be frightened or concerned about people who are different. Real reasons, not irrational fears.

Beoz

As Beoz reverses back out of the dark alley before OzT attempts a mugging.

Nice try sport. I have no fear of people who are different. Are you suggesting I am racist? If so keep walking sunshine.

Without controlled migration you have open borders. Is that what you want? At least answer that.

OzTennis

For the fourth time probably racism was involved in the Brexit outcome. What I am accusing you of is denying that it was.

Thairetired2016

Don't controlled migration and racism mean something different? What's the argument?
You can have open borders and racism. Racism has nothing to do with migration IMHO. Migration becomes a problem when too many turn up. E.g. continental Europe.