Charismatic

If it's an EEA agreement then movement of people is a prerequisite IRRC.

Amazulu

Yes. If the British want to move freely across the EU without being in the EU, then that right must be reciprocated

astera

Even being in the EEA means countries have to respect the four fundamental freedoms of movement of: people, capital, good, services.

Boris, May and any other clowns currently on tour need to get in line and stop whinging about concessions and exemptions because they ain't happenin'.

Since switching EU membership for the EEA won't change any of these core principles, maybe they ought to reconsider whether such a change is anything more than internal, political appeasement.

Which is why I reckon they'll pretend to be doing something just for show, mostly traversing the globe at the tax-payers' expense, whereas all along they know they won't be triggering Article 50 for years... and by then another referendum will actually be necessary to present "the current situation" (and whatever they've agreed with far-away nations) to current voters (less old stock, more fresh faces) for another assessment (aka referendum).

GarryP

As I said, I think they see it as more of a 'get out of jail free' card - to be triggered when the politicians think they want to, as cover for their actions.

And it would thus only get triggered when the EU was falling apart (GFC II) and thus the deal that could be done would be much more advantageous.

There's already talk of a 7 year hiatus on free movement, it wouldn't take much in the right circumstances to push that to 1 in : 1 out. However it's the position of London and the financial markets that is the prime concern to the politicians - not immigrants.

The very fact that Boris is FS points to winning global friends not being top priority for the near term.

OzTennis

News just coming out now of immediate impact of Brexit - £3bn of ERDF funding suspended:

UK suspended payments from £3bn EU development fund days after Brexit vote | UK Politics | News | The Independent

astera

That's kind of like the talk we hear about relaxing sanctions on Russia (personally I hope they stay in place until we bankrupt them completely), how things are warming up and about to change, and then *wham*... 6 more months.

Same thing here, lots of talk except even 100x more unrealistic. There will never be any concessions on the four fundamental freedoms, and rightly so.

Very true, the gov't doesn't stand for the people or the country even - it only represents the banking sector.

Beoz

It represents the economy. In the UK's case, that's financial services. For Australia its mining.

I wonder if May and Merks had a little chat. "Lets keep this under the radar as much as possible, and where we cannot, keep it positive, market damage limitation, let it ride itself out, and the MP's will vote to stay.

astera

London's banks do not equal the UK economy. It's just a bubble that's blown out of proportion. I'd feel much more comfortable with the banking sector taking a big hit than any other big industry in the UK.

Could be, in any case it will probably be dragged out to a point where another referendum will be needed to justify any action.

Swerv-o

I think that May is definitely playing for time. We're now over a month from the vote, and there is no sniff of a plan. I notice that first May wanted an all UK, unified approach, and now she's added Ireland into that unified approach as well:

UK and Ireland will 'take time' to find solutions to Brexit, says Theresa May | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Looks like the first court cases will hit the High Court in December at the earliest, and it will be interesting to see how spirited a defence the government gives those actions.


S

GarryP

I wouldn't be so sure of that - countries are getting less enamoured of the 'anyone can get into the EU via a lax country, then move anywhere' idea. The french certainly aren't happy about terrorists holing up on belgium before attacking paris.

I'd give it 5 years before they are forced to clamp down, max.

astera

I think you mean the Schengen Agreement, which is different from the freedom of movement principle?

GarryP

Both really.

As I say, I doubt the current ideology based situation can persist going forward - either in travel or residency.

astera

So far the four freedoms are working perfectly well, and that includes the UK.

Scaremongering and manipulating the lower levels of society for political gain by certain politicians doesn't change the overall picture.

Schengen is an entirely different issue though, and I think the UK should stay out of it for the foreseeable future due to safety concerns.

GarryP

But the problem is, it does.

The reason the likes of UKIP are pushing the threat of free movement is because people DO look at the likes of polish plumbers as a threat to UK jobs, etc. The idea of free movement was built on the ideology of a united states of europe. For that to work it has to be 'us' rather than 'us and them' - and the reality is that across europe it's very much the latter - and it will remains so, or increase.

You want to convince me otherwise? Tell me the french will give up talking french and that the language of europe will be English.

astera

If a plumber is top class and delivers top quality work/service then he will make good money and have months of work lined up. Only the crappy ones will have a shortage of customers.

Nobody else in Europe has a problem, seems like only those lacking skills back home need to lock everyone else out of the market so they then become the only free hands available. That's when quality of work goes down, prices go up, etc., and consumers ultimately suffer.

I know loads of British families working across Europe and I certainly wouldn't want to see them kicked out and sent back to the UK simply because the "lowest of the lowest" back home want to ruin things for everyone else. And last time I checked they were still themselves and didn't have to stop speaking English or pretend to be someone else. I don't know where you get this idea of 'us vs them' like we're in Africa talking about rival tribes.

Fellow Poms can live anywhere in Europe and still be English without being treated like the "enemy" or "them." As can everyone else.