Australia's burning

Old Jan 4th 2020, 2:02 pm
  #181  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Australians are well know for their toughness and straight talking. Admirable traits anyone would agree. Sarcasm on the other hand isn't and says something about the person being sarcastic.
Maybe it says Dorothy isn't Australian.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 2:03 pm
  #182  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Maybe it says Dorothy isn't Australian.
Yes, I thought of that. Perhaps she is a whinging Pom!!!
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 2:27 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
There are numerous reasons for the current situation. They include:
  • the drought
  • recent extreme heat accompanied by strong winds
  • continuing lack of rainfall to put out fires
  • dry lightning - storms with no rain
  • arsonists
  • carelessness by people in the open camping etc
  • local rules which do not allow land clearance around homes
  • people lighting fires on their land without permits in dangerous conditions
  • hazard reduction burns getting out of control (called other things in some states)
  • lack of hazard reduction burns (for numerous reasons)
Regarding the last point, hazard reduction burns are a more complex issue than many realise. Each state has its own ideas, policies and rules around them, There have been articles in the media recently talking about the amount of paperwork and red tape that is required in some states in order to carry out these burns - where in the past people could just go ahead and burn their land clear of hazards, they now need to get rural fire services to do it,or at least attend the fire, and those services are bound by rules, policies and red tape. The whole issue is causing a lot of discussion at all levels in fire services and there is no easy answer.

Bottom line at present though is - no single cause, no easy fix. A combination of events, weather, personal actions - all resulting in an unforseen state of affairs.

(I should add that any posts I make about the current situation are personal, and are not expressing any official views)

This post seems like a very sensible analysis.

Climate change, which is a fact, needs to be reckoned with and quickly. Unprecedented heat and drought are a fact, and while I'm sure there are better "management techniques", this one can't be managed away. The source of the problem needs to be tackled, and Australia is not and should not be alone in this. I do realize that this is a statement of the bleeding obvious of course.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-h...bushfires-bad/


Thoughts from Chicago also. Good luck to you all and be safe.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 2:34 pm
  #184  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Just saying 'err o.k; is a little childish.
Eh? When did BE change from a banter, talking shite, entertainment etc site to an MBA group assignment?

Get over yourself champ
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 2:37 pm
  #185  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Moses2013 View Post
I would assume humans are the main cause rather than drought. Excessive groundwater pumping probably doesn't help, so why is that allowed in the first place. If you have an IT problem, you usually try and find the root cause.
Of course humans are having an impact on these fires - some f**ckers are starting some of them!
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 2:42 pm
  #186  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
Personally I do agree with the aircraft issue, Aus should be able to utilise the aircraft a lot sooner and having some based here would solve part of that problem. Its an issue I feel Emergency Management Australia and the state governments should investigate earlier. However there is also the issue that the aircraft have to be able to fly - many of the NSW fires, and also some of the earlier Queensland ones, could not be fought with aerial support because they just could not operate in the conditions. The strong winds,and the amount of ash in the sky, are some of the reasons for this.
And on occasion all aircraft have been grounded due to thoughtless people flying drones in the area.

(personal opinions only)
I agree that some of the conditions have made it difficult to fly but the military fly planes (some of them massive like the C-17) at low altitude at night and/or in bad weather. Maybe the water bomber guys and CASA need to take some of that on board. My son just showed me a video of that DC-10 doing a retardant drop - what a sight

I fly drones - sometimes outside of the envelope - but anyone flying one near a fire is a prick and should be locked up if caught
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 3:22 pm
  #187  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Maybe someone could start up an aircraft factory in Australia to produce water-bombers, and sell them to other countries to help offset the cost of a new, larger domestic fleet. The Russian BE-200 amphibious tanker is one that checks a lot of boxes, and the parent company is open for business.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 4:33 pm
  #188  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

We usually have forest fires here in BC each Summer, but due to the Canadian winter, they are all 100% extinguished by November/December due to snow fall.

What is the worst case scenario for the fires in Australia? If human intervention fails, will they eventually go out due to the cooler weather or is Australian winter in that region hot enough for them to continue burning?

We thought we had it bad in 2018, christ that was nothing compared to what I see in the news happening in Australia right now. Stay safe and wear a mask, the smoke is awful for you.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 7:23 pm
  #189  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
I agree that some of the conditions have made it difficult to fly but the military fly planes (some of them massive like the C-17) at low altitude at night and/or in bad weather. Maybe the water bomber guys and CASA need to take some of that on board. My son just showed me a video of that DC-10 doing a retardant drop - what a sight

I fly drones - sometimes outside of the envelope - but anyone flying one near a fire is a prick and should be locked up if caught
Difference is partly the rules under which the pilots operate - civilian as opposed to Defence. Added to which is the danger of flying low through an area of fire-storm and spotting embers, bit different to flying in normal cloud or poor vis (as I'm sure you know),
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 7:25 pm
  #190  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
We usually have forest fires here in BC each Summer, but due to the Canadian winter, they are all 100% extinguished by November/December due to snow fall.

What is the worst case scenario for the fires in Australia? If human intervention fails, will they eventually go out due to the cooler weather or is Australian winter in that region hot enough for them to continue burning?

We thought we had it bad in 2018, christ that was nothing compared to what I see in the news happening in Australia right now. Stay safe and wear a mask, the smoke is awful for you.
Rain. Simple as that. We need rain.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 8:11 pm
  #191  
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Default Re: Australia's burning, from Fire to Political crisis..

Originally Posted by calman014 View Post
As an outsider many miles from the crisis in Australia, I can only express my deep sympathy for the Australian people at the moment. Just like many other countries, it seems some kind of major incident needs to occur in order to display how incompetent and uncaring the current generation of politicians really are. I watch the news and see the flames and remains of people's homes..it really is quite upsetting. You certainly have a lot of support from around the world and with the well known resilience you will get through it. Let's hope the fatalities are kept to a minimum. Best wishes from the Netherlands.
That's a lovely post !
Since there is no way I can say it any lovelier than this, can I add my best wishes from France !
Please stay safe all of you, a house one can rebuild, a life not !
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 8:19 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Pollyana View Post
Rain. Simple as that. We need rain.
And I truly hope it will come very soon in buckets.

May I ask, are you really not allowed to clear your land around homes ?
Here in the South of France it's obligatory to keep 50 m clear from high dry weeds and burnable rubbish around your house, and if necessary, one can oblige the neighbour to do his bit,

Stay safe !
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 8:57 pm
  #193  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
That's ok. You sit in France and tell those of us in Australia all about how the fires here are caused.
​​​​​​Because fire works differently depending on where you live.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 9:22 pm
  #194  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
And I truly hope it will come very soon in buckets.

May I ask, are you really not allowed to clear your land around homes ?
Here in the South of France it's obligatory to keep 50 m clear from high dry weeds and burnable rubbish around your house, and if necessary, one can oblige the neighbour to do his bit,

Stay safe !
Regulations will vary, not just state by state, but also council by council. I live in the Blue Mountains, which is basically a giant national park with some developed areas.
These are the regulations for our local council: Trees and Vegetation on Private Land

When a permit is required

Trees and vegetation are protected under legislation and planning policies. You will need a permit from Council to:

Remove or prune a tree that is 4 or more metres in height and/or has a crown spread of more than 4 metres.

Remove or prune any mallee formed Eucalyptus species, irrespective of size.

Clear natural vegetation or regenerating indigenous vegetation including shrubs and ground layer vegetation.

Clear vegetation affected by a complying development certificate.

Remove trees or clear vegetation within a heritage conservation area, on heritage listed properties and on land which an Aboriginal object is located or the land is an Aboriginal place of heritage significance.
There are exemptions. Read on to find out more.

Exemptions are in place so that backyards are free from weeds and hazards.

Exemptions are listed in:
Part C5: Development Control Plan 2015
Local Land Services Act
Land Management (Native Vegetation) Code
State Environmental Planning Policy (Vegetation in Non-Rural Areas)
You will need to read these documents to ensure that the removal and / or pruning works meets the criteria. The Rural Fire Services (RFS) 10/50 scheme also allows property owners to clear trees within 10 metres of a home or underlying vegetation (other than trees) such as shrubs within 50 metres of a home, without seeking approval. These rules only apply if the land is identified as being eligible.
Because where I am is a bushfire zone, we're covered by the 10/50 scheme mentioned above, so we don't need approval to remove trees within 10m or vegetation within 50m. But I live in bushland, our street is filled with eucalypts, our streets are built on ridges in the landscape, and the valleys in between are filled with eucalypts, our gardens are filled with eucalypts - these are all part of the reason why people live here. Unfortunately eucalypts are oil filled explosive devices which continue burning long after any visible fire is extinguished. There is a limit to how much difference clearing would make on a semi-rural street. We know that if a fire gets going in the ravine along the back of our gardens, there's a good chance the whole street would be lost. The terrain out there is quite horrific - when we had big fires in our village in 2013, waterbombing behind the house was the main source of control.

For us, the next few days are forecast to be cooler, with the chance of light rain on a couple of the days. Then back into the 40s - rinse and repeat for several weeks. The RFS will continue their sterling work through the cooler periods, trying to create and shore up containment lines to protect us from the Gospers Mountain fire to the NW, the Grose Valley fire to the west, the Ruined Castle fire to the SW and the Green Wattle Creek fire to the south, which is the main danger with ember attack while we have southerly winds for the next few days. Our local RFS is incredible at keeping us all up to date, with updates on FB, regular community interactions at the local shopping centre and also meetings at the station.

This is all particular to my own locale - the horrific fires burning down on the SE coast of NSW, and those in Victoria and South Australia, and the fires still burning up on the NE coast of NSW and in Queensland. may have very different circumstances and require different management techniques.
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Old Jan 4th 2020, 9:49 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Thanks for all this info, very informative ! I will read the articles tomorrow.
Interesting to compare the different ways of dealing with problems all over the planet.
I hope the rain will be enough to take the heat of this situation (no pun intended).
It seems there's a lot organized where you are !
I saw the temperature in Penrith possibly reaching 48.9 today ... Pewww.
We had 44 during this summer (just 2 days though) and that was horrible.
As always, stay safe !
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