No local experience? you are going to the database
Aug 6th 2010 | 7:22 pm
#61
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,400
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
Being (well) past working I know nothing about recruitment agencies. However, I played golf with a gent last week who, in conversation, said that he had left employment several years ago and started a recruitment agency. It was not doing well. It shared a building with fifteen other recruitment agencies.
Draw your own conclusions.
Draw your own conclusions.
Aug 7th 2010 | 3:03 am
#62
Thread Starter
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 143
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
getting back on topic agents are a complete nightmare. I just had an experience in the last few weeks, I go for an interview with an agency for a position that was advertised.
Have a great chat with the guy, he tells me all about the job, we talk for like an hour about previous roles, experience etc, it goes really well.
He says hes putting me forward for the job. I find out a week later that the position had actually already been filled by someone else before I even went in for the interview.
Also he has gone and hasseled all my refrences, even though he has no job to put me forward to. Basically he called them just to see if he could drum up more buisness for himself, using my name and the pretence of getting a reference as a way to see if they themselves are looking for people.
So now I have pissed of references, who are going to be less inclined to speak to other people about me and the damn agent lied about even having a job.
Have a great chat with the guy, he tells me all about the job, we talk for like an hour about previous roles, experience etc, it goes really well.
He says hes putting me forward for the job. I find out a week later that the position had actually already been filled by someone else before I even went in for the interview.
Also he has gone and hasseled all my refrences, even though he has no job to put me forward to. Basically he called them just to see if he could drum up more buisness for himself, using my name and the pretence of getting a reference as a way to see if they themselves are looking for people.
So now I have pissed of references, who are going to be less inclined to speak to other people about me and the damn agent lied about even having a job.
Aug 8th 2010 | 4:48 pm
#63
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 90
From: Nelson Bay, NSW
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
Shuvo, From that comment, I would assume that you don't have a lot of insight in to how agencies work and their commercial terms (Why would you, you're a developer!)
You are correct to assume that there may be some sharking going on in terms of swooping in on hiring managers who have vacancies that you have interviewed or applied for, however, the other, and much more ethical reason is that they want to know who you have approached so they do not forward your details to that company. This is because it will greatly reduce your chances of getting hired by that company and the agency will not get commision.
Unfortunately, you telling them that you won't play by the agencies rules means that you get the 'database' response. In other words, thanks but you are wasting my time.
Remember, it is their game and their rules. Recruiters fill vacancies, they DO NOT match applicants to jobs. You are not paying them, their master is the hiring company.
You can be morally right or effective and employed
Promotions are done in good companies around your ability to do your new job and not how you do your current one (The Peter Principle). Part of being a successfull manager and therefore, a prospective executive, is your relationship building skills. Relationship power trumps role power every time and the further you go up the pole, the less relevant your technical skills become.
Building relationships is way easier when you are speaking the other peoples language, ergo, you get promoted quicker. (This also applies to native English speakers communicating with native English speakers who are different personality types)
Tim
You are correct to assume that there may be some sharking going on in terms of swooping in on hiring managers who have vacancies that you have interviewed or applied for, however, the other, and much more ethical reason is that they want to know who you have approached so they do not forward your details to that company. This is because it will greatly reduce your chances of getting hired by that company and the agency will not get commision.
Unfortunately, you telling them that you won't play by the agencies rules means that you get the 'database' response. In other words, thanks but you are wasting my time.
Remember, it is their game and their rules. Recruiters fill vacancies, they DO NOT match applicants to jobs. You are not paying them, their master is the hiring company.
You can be morally right or effective and employed
It's a big advantage being a native English speaker when looking for a promotion as well, I have also heard of some employees are not considered for promotion because they would be in the postion to favour people of a similar culture as themselves rather than be impartial... It a bit of a contradiction if you ask me but that's the way things are done.
Building relationships is way easier when you are speaking the other peoples language, ergo, you get promoted quicker. (This also applies to native English speakers communicating with native English speakers who are different personality types)
Tim
Last edited by TheRutters; Aug 8th 2010 at 5:14 pm.
Aug 8th 2010 | 5:52 pm
#64
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,331
From: Helensvale - yipeeeeeeeee!!
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
This subject comes up time after time. The upshot is that agencies are crap and that if you don't speak clear English employers are very likely to fob you off by saying you were not recruited because you didn't have local knowledge. It might not be fair, but its how it is and to be honest, if I ran a company I would not recruit people with accents that my customers would have difficulty with either but not wanting to be faced with a law suit I would use the local knowledge card too.
Ranting and raving about the government and Australian skills shortages and how fantastic America is won't change a bloody thing. You just have to keep door knocking till somebody lets you in. End of. Oh, and not be surprised if you get little sympathy when you have only been trying for 2 weeks.
Ranting and raving about the government and Australian skills shortages and how fantastic America is won't change a bloody thing. You just have to keep door knocking till somebody lets you in. End of. Oh, and not be surprised if you get little sympathy when you have only been trying for 2 weeks.
Aug 13th 2010 | 8:32 am
#65
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 484
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
getting back on topic agents are a complete nightmare. I just had an experience in the last few weeks, I go for an interview with an agency for a position that was advertised.
Have a great chat with the guy, he tells me all about the job, we talk for like an hour about previous roles, experience etc, it goes really well.
He says hes putting me forward for the job. I find out a week later that the position had actually already been filled by someone else before I even went in for the interview.
Also he has gone and hasseled all my refrences, even though he has no job to put me forward to. Basically he called them just to see if he could drum up more buisness for himself, using my name and the pretence of getting a reference as a way to see if they themselves are looking for people.
So now I have pissed of references, who are going to be less inclined to speak to other people about me and the damn agent lied about even having a job.
Have a great chat with the guy, he tells me all about the job, we talk for like an hour about previous roles, experience etc, it goes really well.
He says hes putting me forward for the job. I find out a week later that the position had actually already been filled by someone else before I even went in for the interview.
Also he has gone and hasseled all my refrences, even though he has no job to put me forward to. Basically he called them just to see if he could drum up more buisness for himself, using my name and the pretence of getting a reference as a way to see if they themselves are looking for people.
So now I have pissed of references, who are going to be less inclined to speak to other people about me and the damn agent lied about even having a job.
Aug 13th 2010 | 8:40 am
#66
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 484
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
Hey Shuvo. I've glance through the 5 pages and can see you have made lots of friends ;-). Not sure what you've done but xzibit is probably right. Please don't fight it - just take it on the chin. If 1 person doesn't agree with you it can be them, 2 - maybe them too but when you have a few (and the people on here aren't bad) then... but yeah you haven't done much wrong so don't worry about it
Anyway, main issue is this 'local experience' thing. I'll cut to the chase - it is either as people have said here an excuse as they don't like you OR because you are from India (not saying thats you but thats what they use it for in general). Agents here and companies are very, very sceptical about hiring Indians apparently because of their comms skills. I have a girl working with me who is brilliant but she had a lot of trouble getting work. She's actually working in a role one tier lower than she should be. I'd say its worse here than in the UK. But thats the way it is and you have to get on with it. I can;t tell if you're from india as your english is so good so they probably just wanted to fob you off. You got a job though in 2 weeks - I have been contracting for 11 yrs and 2 weeks to get a job isn;t bad. Maybe they think you are a bit negative? Not sure - but one thing they look at a lot more in interviews here is a persons chac and how they will 'fit in' with the team etc. Well done anyway!!
Ha ha just saw Renshens comments. He/She's right. My old man spent months looking for work in the 60s. As soon as they saw his brown face they'd slam the door in it. I'm lucky and so are all other migrants now that times have moved on. You should be proud that you've found something in 2 weeks
Anyway, main issue is this 'local experience' thing. I'll cut to the chase - it is either as people have said here an excuse as they don't like you OR because you are from India (not saying thats you but thats what they use it for in general). Agents here and companies are very, very sceptical about hiring Indians apparently because of their comms skills. I have a girl working with me who is brilliant but she had a lot of trouble getting work. She's actually working in a role one tier lower than she should be. I'd say its worse here than in the UK. But thats the way it is and you have to get on with it. I can;t tell if you're from india as your english is so good so they probably just wanted to fob you off. You got a job though in 2 weeks - I have been contracting for 11 yrs and 2 weeks to get a job isn;t bad. Maybe they think you are a bit negative? Not sure - but one thing they look at a lot more in interviews here is a persons chac and how they will 'fit in' with the team etc. Well done anyway!!
Ha ha just saw Renshens comments. He/She's right. My old man spent months looking for work in the 60s. As soon as they saw his brown face they'd slam the door in it. I'm lucky and so are all other migrants now that times have moved on. You should be proud that you've found something in 2 weeks
Last edited by itxrd; Aug 13th 2010 at 8:44 am.
Aug 13th 2010 | 8:52 am
#67
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 96
From: Northern California
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
They use candidtaes as sources now. This gal from a very famous IT recruiting agency called me and asked me for which companies did I go for interview or will go. I said I can't tell now. then again she emailed me and requested me to inform her.I wrote I think its unethical to discuss this.Same with the next agent. He kinda blackmailed me into telling who interviewed me, the name of the manager, everything.I am sure he is gonna contact them now and ask them if they need any more people.
Aug 13th 2010 | 9:14 am
#68
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 484
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
When a recruitment agent asks me where I've interviewed, I either say I'm not interviewing anywhere or that I interviewed with John Smith at IBM. This usually is enough to get them off my back. I wonder how many actually ring the switch at IBM and ask for John Smith! LOL!
Aug 13th 2010 | 10:16 am
#69
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,623
From: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Aug 13th 2010 | 10:59 am
#70
Mostly Harmless
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,111
From: Semi-rural wonderworld, Brisbane
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
If they fail this then there is only one layer of hell in which to drop.
Brisbane Taxi Driver
Aug 13th 2010 | 11:12 am
#71
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,623
From: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
There are people placed on this planet who seem to thrive in networking and sales roles, even if at the time it was the only option for them. Maybe it's like bar work - a phase.
Aug 13th 2010 | 11:45 am
#72
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,616
From: Fantasy Island....
Aug 13th 2010 | 12:04 pm
#73
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 94,307
From: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
Aug 13th 2010 | 7:34 pm
#75
Melbourne - NE suburbs
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,032
Re: No local experience? you are going to the database
On the 14th day of my new life in Sydney I got an offer for a webdeveloper(.net) job.
It has not been easy. I get 2-3 calls from recruitment agents every morning. I have got such an illustrious career with experience of working with clients from USA,UK, Scandenevia, but none of the agents put me forward for an interview for one damn reason, I don't have any aussie experience. I can't understand where USA or UK is lagging behind in what aspect that my 5 and half years experience doesn't mean anything to them.People from subcontinent are like Hot Cakes in USA IT industry, which is the mother of IT. After talking with me for 10-20 minutes all the agents told me the same thing, we will put you in Database and call you back, that's it.
It has not been easy. I get 2-3 calls from recruitment agents every morning. I have got such an illustrious career with experience of working with clients from USA,UK, Scandenevia, but none of the agents put me forward for an interview for one damn reason, I don't have any aussie experience. I can't understand where USA or UK is lagging behind in what aspect that my 5 and half years experience doesn't mean anything to them.People from subcontinent are like Hot Cakes in USA IT industry, which is the mother of IT. After talking with me for 10-20 minutes all the agents told me the same thing, we will put you in Database and call you back, that's it.
