Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA
Reload this Page >

Land of opportunity...

Land of opportunity...

Thread Tools
 
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:30 pm
  #226  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Sure it does, because it allows consumers to acquire goods more cheaply from abroad than they could if they were sourced at home. They increase their consumption of their goods accordingly, which increases GDP and keep domestic inflation rates low. Their purchasing power increases thanks to the labor arbitrage achieved from the imports.
GDP also only refers to goods produced within a certain country. This means that if a firm is located in one country but manufactures goods in another, those goods are counted as part of the foreign country's GDP, not the firm's home country. For example, BMW is a German company but cars manufactured in the United States are counted as part of the United States GDP.


If I buy a shoe from Walmart made in China, it is subtracted from GDP. If some component of that shoe were made in the US, then that subtracts less from GDP, because there was an intermediate export of that material from the US.

A trade deficit by itself does not allow consumers to acquire goods more cheaply. All a trade deficit means is that you buy more than you produce. There can various reasons for that including an overvalued currency, gov't overspending, strong consumption relative to rest of the world, no export base, etc. There are very poor countries w/ trade deficits, and rich ones.

The alternatives to importing these goods would be to produce more of them domestically at higher prices (higher labor rates), which would necessarily reduce consumption and the business infrastructure that imports and retails them. US businesses achieve growth by selling these imports, which adds to GDP.
This transition (in terms of developing countries taking the role of manufacturing cheap goods) has been in place now for a good 30 years. Has this transition caused trade deficits? Maybe a little, but the savings ratio has much more to do with it. The formula for net exports that is used by economists is the following:

NX=Savings-Investment

So if you save more than you invest, you will have a trade surplus and vice-versa.

"Booming" is a relative term. US exports clearly cannot keep apace with the US appetite for imports, obviously, otherwise the US wouldn't attempt to support such a massive trade deficit. That trade deficit that can only be supported through foreign investment (read: debt.)
I need remind you that its trade deficit in relative terms is much smaller than in many other countries and is comparatively not that big. Spain's is 2x as large, for ex.

The weakening dollar and soaring commodity prices suggest that the system is cracking. Only a textbook idealist could believe that a weak dollar is good for the United States. The US is import dependent and has no basis for creating a trade balance.
Many economists believe a weak dollar is good. It is the easiest way to bring down the trade deficit, while at the same time helping the export sector.

A strong currency is what brought down the British Empire into its 1920's Great Depression, which was due to Churchill's foolish idea of backing the sterling w/ gold. This made it extremely overvalued and killed much of its industry. In the 1980-1985 era, the very strong dollar resulted in the result of hundreds of thousands of lost manufacturing jobs

If the dollar continues to lose value at this pace, there is no reason to believe that it will continue to remain a reserve currency over the long run, as no foreign treasury will wish to stay heavily invested in a rapidly depreciating asset.
It will not continue to lose much more value, as there is evidence that it has already bottomed vs. the Euro. Against the Yen it has been up 8% in just a few months. Most projections I have seen have the dollar gaining strength vs. the Euro after this year, all the way through 2012. The reason is because the Euro is overvalued and because the ECB will have to lessen interest rates w/ the upcoming recession.

This has happened before. In 1995, the dollar was extremely weak vs. the European currencies to a point where there was market intervention. In the early 80's the opposite was true. This is a cyle that is clearly viewed from a historical perspective. Dance of the Dollar, as they call it.

I also believe that commodity prices will come down, as global demand slows.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:34 pm
  #227  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
I'm still looking for the American middle class, I'm afraid! Those are the ones with negative equity in their homes, credit cards maxed out, and just about to lose their jobs, are they? Probably not long before we look like Mexico.
More exaggerations:



The people you talk about isn't the majority. The US has a huge middle class, which is the most well off materially. Not saying there are no problems, but you just say things w/o thinking.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:39 pm
  #228  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
I think many of us are having grave doubts about his employment claims.


Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:42 pm
  #229  
Septicity
 
fatbrit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
fatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Fonseca33
This means that if a firm is located in one country but manufactures goods in another, those goods are counted as part of the foreign country's GDP, not the firm's home country. For example, BMW is a German company but cars manufactured in the United States are counted as part of the United States GDP.
Professor Plagiarist, perhaps?

I can't be bothered to go and find where you sourced your other cut and pastes from. Is there any original work in it?
fatbrit is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:43 pm
  #230  
Septicity
 
fatbrit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
fatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Your claimed employment!
fatbrit is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:49 pm
  #231  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
(Yes, I understood that.) You are right, I'm sure that's what he meant.

The only problem with that argument is that the US is still running enormous trade deficits, and the devaluation of the dollar has done little to change this.

There is no point at which the US dollar can be weak enough to create a trade balance. We would have to lose our thirst for imported oil and dramatically reduce our consumption of imports to fix it. Or else, we can start paying US workers what the Chinese are paying theirs (something that we attempt to accomplish with illegal migrant labor, but I digress.)
Oil is the main reason why it has stayed high. Take out oil and it has really plunged. A way fix it would be to consume much less. A much less painful way would be to increase exports. Imports are declining (due to consumer recession) and exports are rising to a point where the trade deficit will be less than 4% of GDP by the end of this year, which is not high. If oil drops, it will be even less.

There is no rule which says that a country needs a balance. If a country can keep their surpluses/deficits to reasonable levels, there is no problem.

Last edited by Fonseca33; Jul 20th 2008 at 9:52 pm.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:50 pm
  #232  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Professor Plagiarist, perhaps?

I can't be bothered to go and find where you sourced your other cut and pastes from. Is there any original work in it?
Nobody believes me, so I decided to use a source that people believe.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:51 pm
  #233  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Your claimed employment!
I did? I always meant the duration of unemployment.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:53 pm
  #234  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
I've asked flyertalk whether they want their troll back. They didn't seem very enthusiastic.
Please. What I said 6 years ago doesn't change anything now.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:54 pm
  #235  
Septicity
 
fatbrit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
fatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Fonseca33
Nobody believes me, so I decided to use a source that people believe.
Professors (and silly adolescents who pretend to be other things on the web) are most welcome to use others' material in their argument. The normal method is to cite the work you use in your argument. But you'd know that, wouldn't you -- you being a professor and all that!
fatbrit is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:55 pm
  #236  
Septicity
 
fatbrit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
fatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Fonseca33
Please. What I said 6 years ago doesn't change anything now.
So...we have a match...and a live one, folks! Let the games begin!
fatbrit is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:58 pm
  #237  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Professors (and silly adolescents who pretend to be other things on the web) are most welcome to use others' material in their argument. The normal method is to cite the work you use in your argument. But you'd know that, wouldn't you -- you being a professor and all that!
I am indeed a student Professor (official in 2 years) who has posted more informative information than you have. What have you done? Say these hyperbolic statements which have more no basis?

Last edited by Fonseca33; Jul 20th 2008 at 10:01 pm.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 10:00 pm
  #238  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by fatbrit
So...we have a match...and a live one, folks! Let the games begin!
Please quote and point out specifics of where I am wrong, instead of your childish rants.
Fonseca33 is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 10:02 pm
  #239  
Septicity
 
fatbrit's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
fatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond reputefatbrit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Fonseca33
I'm Economics Professor at UF, and I think I know (after years, and after hundreds of publications) what I am talking about. What I said is also common knowledge, so I am surprised somebody doubted it.

Here is a direct link:

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba475/
Originally Posted by Fonseca33
I am indeed a student Professor (official in 2 years) who has posted more informative information than you have. What have you done? Say these hyperbolic statements which have more true basis?
You've been and cut and pasted a few articles -- so what!

Your original claim was that you were an economics professor. Now you admit you're not quite there. Most of us find it incredulous that you would even be close to achieving this exalted position.
fatbrit is offline  
Old Jul 20th 2008, 10:06 pm
  #240  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
Fonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud ofFonseca33 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Vladimir
Lets count. Aver. salary in USA (probably) 2500$/9=280$.
For the same work i China pay usually a i listen 150$. I think i was right.
Avg. Earnings in the US for a full time worker is $53,000, according to the CPS. That's 20x China, probably, when you include all the rural workers.
Fonseca33 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.